Ironite Questions?

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:32:09 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite? What
is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal to sell
for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to the
soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water
over the plants several times during the season isn't practical.

They sell horticultural grade molassas and that is what I use for
iron. Since my pH is high I also use magnesium along with it in order
to provide more availablity in the soil. You can broadcast magnesium
in the form of epsom salt and if you dilute it enough, you can use
molassas in a hose end sprayer.

Ironite contains levels of arsenic I am not willing to use. It will
help kill soil organisms along with larger fauna in the gardens. I
avoid it. There are plenty of websites you can read with pro and con
on the subject of ironite.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-19 04:42:05 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:32:09 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite?
What
is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal to sell
for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to the
soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water
over the plants several times during the season isn't practical.

You spray sticky diluted molasses on the plants in summer? How can you know
how much iron the plants are getting and how often do you do it? Also, how
to you keep from drawing insects with something like molasses? Here we'd
have problems with things like raccoons and possums.

Post by Jangchub
Ironite contains levels of arsenic I am not willing to use. It will
help kill soil organisms along with larger fauna in the gardens. I
avoid it. There are plenty of websites you can read with pro and con
on the subject of ironite.

OK. I will Google them but just want you to know I've used it here for at
least 15 years and have seen no problems. The gardens are still full of
toads and box turtles. Moles are still a serious pest at times. Earthworms
and grubs thrive.....

Jangchub

2008-08-19 12:58:03 UTC

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:42:05 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
You spray sticky diluted molasses on the plants in summer? How can you know
how much iron the plants are getting and how often do you do it? Also, how
to you keep from drawing insects with something like molasses? Here we'd
have problems with things like raccoons and possums.

One tablespoon to a gallon of water as a foliar spray along with
liquid seaweed. I have opossums and raccoons in my yard and they
don't have problems.

Post by Marie Dodge
OK. I will Google them but just want you to know I've used it here for at
least 15 years and have seen no problems. The gardens are still full of
toads and box turtles. Moles are still a serious pest at times. Earthworms
and grubs thrive.....

Why did you ask a question if you already know the answer?

Marie Dodge

2008-08-20 01:11:06 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:42:05 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

One tablespoon to a gallon of water as a foliar spray along with
liquid seaweed. I have opossums and raccoons in my yard and they
don't have problems.

Mine don't have problems either, I have a problem with them.... they eat my
veggies! = O How often are you spraying your garden with the Molasses?
They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start ordering
things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be
shipped.

Why did you ask a question if you already know the answer?

I asked what the issues were, the problems with Ironite since I haven't had
any problems using it.

Jangchub

2008-08-20 02:22:54 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:11:06 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
Mine don't have problems either, I have a problem with them.... they eat my
veggies! = O How often are you spraying your garden with the Molasses?
They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start ordering
things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be
shipped.

Lowe's and Home Depot both sell liquid seaweed. Gardens alive sells
it on their website. Horticultural molasses is not as heavy as baking
molasses and is still black strap with the iron still in it. I spray
about every ten days.

I don't have a problem with animals eating things in the garden. I'm
not implying you don't have a problem with it, just that I don't. I
am honored they feel safe enough to be here. Maybe that's why they
don't eat everything? I don't know. My dog when alive ate far more
of my tomatoes than any coon or opossum.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 07:19:17 UTC

Post by Jangchub
Lowe's and Home Depot both sell liquid seaweed. Gardens alive sells
it on their website. Horticultural molasses is not as heavy as baking
molasses and is still black strap with the iron still in it. I spray
about every ten days.

Oh, I use the Ironite once a year. It's turned over with the fertilizer and
organic matter. I'll see what Seaweed costs. I may not be able to afford to
spray a 900 to 100 sq. ft of garden every 10 days with it. To spray the
plants lightly takes 3 to 4 gallons of water. More organic fertilizers are
now being priced outside our budget. I can no longer afford bone and blood
meal. Organic gardening is becoming something for those of higher incomes,
not for the retired.

Post by Jangchub
I don't have a problem with animals eating things in the garden. I'm
not implying you don't have a problem with it, just that I don't. I
am honored they feel safe enough to be here.

I' d be more honored if they ate their natural diet and not my veggies.
Wild turkeys were out under the pear tree today munching on the fallen
pears. Actually we don't suffer too much damage from animals.

Maybe that's why they

Post by Jangchub
don't eat everything? I don't know. My dog when alive ate far more
of my tomatoes than any coon or opossum.

Steve Young

2008-08-22 10:50:25 UTC

Being financially constrained as you are, don't you look out there and see
turkey dinner? Hell, if I were in your shoes, it wouldn't be long before I
smelled it cooking, right along side the sweet tators and dressing ;)))

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 19:35:17 UTC

Being financially constrained as you are, don't you look out there and see
turkey dinner? Hell, if I were in your shoes, it wouldn't be long before
I smelled it cooking, right along side the sweet tators and dressing ;)))

We haven't got the heart to shoot them. It's also illegal..... but we've
been tempted. The plump sleek deer we sometimes see walking an old deerpath
about 25 feet into the woods behind our house also look tasty. ;-)

Jangchub

2008-08-22 11:20:25 UTC

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:19:17 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
Oh, I use the Ironite once a year. It's turned over with the fertilizer and
organic matter. I'll see what Seaweed costs. I may not be able to afford to
spray a 900 to 100 sq. ft of garden every 10 days with it. To spray the
plants lightly takes 3 to 4 gallons of water. More organic fertilizers are
now being priced outside our budget. I can no longer afford bone and blood
meal. Organic gardening is becoming something for those of higher incomes,
not for the retired.

You are overusing Ironite. I mean, use it if you want, but you are
wasting money by using it too often. What are the symptoms you get
which tell you to apply Ironite yearly?

Post by Marie Dodge
I' d be more honored if they ate their natural diet and not my veggies.
Wild turkeys were out under the pear tree today munching on the fallen
pears. Actually we don't suffer too much damage from animals.

What do scavengers eat naturally?

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 19:42:03 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:19:17 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

You are overusing Ironite. I mean, use it if you want, but you are
wasting money by using it too often. What are the symptoms you get
which tell you to apply Ironite yearly?

The plants are not a good rich green color once planted out in the gardens.
The get paler as summer passes. The soil is alkaline from natural limestone
locking up any iron in the soil. By late summer they're almost chlorotic.
That doesn't happen with Ironite. Also, our Hollies and Azaleas would die
from chlorosis before we started using sulfur and Ironite. I did buy some
stuff for Hollies and Azaleas this year. I didn't use the Ironite on them.
But who knows what poisons are in any of these products? There's no way to
know. How can I even know what's in the 10-10-10 I buy?

What do scavengers eat naturally?

That depends on which scavenger you're talking about. Even humans can fit
into that category. Insects and bugs are the worst garden pests here, not
animals.

Bill

2008-08-22 20:03:35 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
The plants are not a good rich green color once planted out in the gardens.
The get paler as summer passes. The soil is alkaline from natural limestone
locking up any iron in the soil. By late summer they're almost chlorotic.
That doesn't happen with Ironite. Also, our Hollies and Azaleas would die
from chlorosis before we started using sulfur and Ironite. I did buy some
stuff for Hollies and Azaleas this year. I didn't use the Ironite on them.
But who knows what poisons are in any of these products? There's no way to
know. How can I even know what's in the 10-10-10 I buy?

Sometimes you just can¹t grow an acid loving plant in a alkaline area.
Sure you can try to over ride this limitation but it requires energy aka
money. AND the odds are not in your favor.

<http://www.demesne.info/Garden-Help/Solutions/Soil/Alkaline-Soils.htm>

<http://www.gardeninghelpuk.com/plants_for_acid_soil.htm>

What state do you reside in?

I have to deal with Acid here in NJ.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Pat Kiewicz

2008-08-20 10:39:49 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start ordering
things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be
shipped.

Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes shipping
is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even these days).

Consider Maxicrop seaweed *powder* where you avoid paying to ship
water:

http://www.arbico-organics.com/1313001.html

Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper.

(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )

http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html

I buy this mail order *even though* I have seen liquid kelp on sale
locally, because it is so much less expensive (in the long run) to buy
the dry powder even considering shipping, and because the dry powder
is so much more convenient to store.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 07:29:22 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start ordering
things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be
shipped.

The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25!

Post by Pat Kiewicz
(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )
http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html

If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high
priced organic stuff. :)

Post by Pat Kiewicz
I buy this mail order *even though* I have seen liquid kelp on sale
locally, because it is so much less expensive (in the long run) to buy
the dry powder even considering shipping, and because the dry powder
is so much more convenient to store.

I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these
organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or
they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the liquid
Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once opened, with
white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when I switched to
Ironite.

Post by Pat Kiewicz
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)
After enlightenment, the laundry.

Pat Kiewicz

2008-08-22 11:03:25 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start ordering
things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be
shipped.

The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25!

That much lasts me two or three years. (And my quoted shipping by
USPS was only $7.00.) It's equivalent to many *gallons* of liquid seaweed.

I wouldn't transplant anything without it. Greens up the occasional
plant that goes chlorotic. Promotes general vigor as a foliar feed.

Post by Pat Kiewicz
(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )
http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html

If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high
priced organic stuff. :)

If you gardened on a sand pit like mine, it wouldn't make sense to fertilize
any other way...rain will leach anything soluable right away, which is money
down the drain (almost literally).

My main fertilizer in the vegetable garden is alfalfa (pellets), supplemented
by Maxicrop and all the compost and mulch I can make from autumn
leaves collected all around the neighborhood. Still have some bags of
leaves way in the back from last fall, which will go into more batches of
compost as the sweetcorn stalks get pulled.

15 or so years ago I was able to give the veggie garden a heavy dose of
greensand, but I was lucky at the time to be able to buy it locally in 40
pound bags. Doubt if I could afford that now, as no one seems to carry
it in big bags anymore and the freight costs on that would be really
astronomical. I wish that weren't the case, though...

That's the beauty of a dry powder. Sits there on the shelf so you can mix it
up as needed.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 19:59:32 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start ordering
things online because the shipping is often as much as the items to be
shipped.

Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes

shipping

Post by Pat Kiewicz
is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even these days).
Consider Maxicrop seaweed *powder* where you avoid paying to ship
http://www.arbico-organics.com/1313001.html
Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper.

The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25!

That much lasts me two or three years. (And my quoted shipping by
USPS was only $7.00.) It's equivalent to many *gallons* of liquid seaweed.

My quoted shipping was $11.50 cheapest way. You must live closer to the
place. How large is your garden and how often do you spray it?

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I wouldn't transplant anything without it. Greens up the occasional
plant that goes chlorotic. Promotes general vigor as a foliar feed.

Post by Pat Kiewicz
(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )
http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html

If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high
priced organic stuff. :)

If you gardened on a sand pit like mine, it wouldn't make sense to fertilize
any other way...rain will leach anything soluable right away, which is money
down the drain (almost literally).

I understand. Where I live it's a poor droughty clay. We had to till in
loads and loads of organic matter to grow anything. It was forest when I
bought this land many years ago. It's only the last few years we're really
getting into vegetable gardening. I just started canning again this year.
Now that we're retired we have more time - but less money. :( We're living
on SS and the few extra bucks he makes helping out a friend once a week or
so. A a small savings account for emergency use. To someone working full
time, or your average Yuppie, the cost of organic stuff is affordable. To
the retired, unless they have "other income," it's just too darn expensive.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
My main fertilizer in the vegetable garden is alfalfa (pellets), supplemented
by Maxicrop and all the compost and mulch I can make from autumn
leaves collected all around the neighborhood. Still have some bags of
leaves way in the back from last fall, which will go into more batches of
compost as the sweetcorn stalks get pulled.
15 or so years ago I was able to give the veggie garden a heavy dose of
greensand, but I was lucky at the time to be able to buy it locally in 40
pound bags. Doubt if I could afford that now, as no one seems to carry
it in big bags anymore and the freight costs on that would be really
astronomical. I wish that weren't the case, though...

I have the same problem! I have to have everything shipped and that is not
possible anymore. I even had to order a canner through Ace Hardware in town.
I was surprised to find canning jars at Wal*Mart. This area of my county is
no longer agricultural. Farmers give up in disgust to droughts and pest
invasions and the high cost of fuel and pesticides. Where farms once were I
see subdivisions full of Yuppies. Cattle farms have turned into huge
shopping Malls. The stores cater to them... not to us looking for organic
garden products. These newcomers hire Lawn Services and never dirty their
hands.

Post by Marie Dodge
I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these
organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or
they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the liquid
Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once opened, with
white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when I switched to
Ironite.

That's the beauty of a dry powder. Sits there on the shelf so you can mix it
up as needed.

How large is your garden and how often do you spray it?

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)
After enlightenment, the laundry.

Steve Young

2008-08-22 12:33:28 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start
ordering things online because the shipping is often as much
as the items to be shipped.

Try nematodes for that relationship, then try finding live ones locally

Post by Pat Kiewicz
Yes, but some things are cheap at twice the price, and sometimes shipping
is nowhere near equal to the cost of the item shipped (even these days).
Consider Maxicrop seaweed *powder* where you avoid paying to ship
http://www.arbico-organics.com/1313001.html
Get it shipped by priority mail. It's cheaper.

The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25!

Post by Pat Kiewicz
(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )
http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html

If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high
priced organic stuff. :)

oh poor me
I guess you'll just have to kick back and retire from gardening

You're wanting to buy the wrong stuff at the wrong places and then
disappointed that you can't, or you get overcharged :(

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 20:04:26 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to start
ordering things online because the shipping is often as much
as the items to be shipped.

Try nematodes for that relationship, then try finding live ones locally

For what relationship? ???

The product is $14.75 and shipping is $11.50 = $27.25!

Post by Pat Kiewicz
(I would have recommended The Eclectic Gardener, as a satisfied
customer, but they are sold out of Maxicrop powder. )
http://www.eclectic-gardener.com/maxicroppowder.html

If I ever play and win the Lottery maybe I can afford some of this high
priced organic stuff. :)

oh poor me
I guess you'll just have to kick back and retire from gardening.

Why should I do that simply because I can't afford the things YOU can? Clue
#1 - Not everyone has your income. :-)

Post by Marie Dodge
I'm in Lowe's and Home Depot regularly and yet haven't seen any of these
organic fertilizers. Perhaps there isn't enough call for them here. Or
they're so expensive people wont pay the price. Twice I bought the
liquid Iron and twice it turned into a tinny smelling liquid once opened,
with white stuff like scale in it at the bottom. That was when I
switched to Ironite.

You're wanting to buy the wrong stuff at the wrong places and then
disappointed that you can't, or you get overcharged :(

I can only shop at the stores that are here. There's a nursery that carries
bone and blood meal and I think they still have Fish Emulsion. It would be
several hundred dollars to purchase enough for our gardens. People are not
buying these high priced items. They're going for the bags of General
Fertilizer and Ironite.

polecanoe

2008-08-20 23:08:08 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:42:05 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

One tablespoon to a gallon of water as a foliar spray along with
liquid seaweed. I have opossums and raccoons in my yard and they
don't have problems.

Mine don't have problems either, I have a problem with them.... they eat
my veggies! = O How often are you spraying your garden with the
Molasses? They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to
start ordering things online because the shipping is often as much as the
items to be shipped.

Why did you ask a question if you already know the answer?

I asked what the issues were, the problems with Ironite since I haven't
had any problems using it.

Arsenic poisins the central nervous system, likewise copper and lead. I'm
not going to say it but...

One application of greensand will work for many years, unlike ironite or
seaweed which will quickly break down.

R M. Watkin

2008-08-21 15:51:09 UTC

Hi All,
What is greensand.?

Richard M. Watkin,

Post by Jangchub
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:42:05 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

One tablespoon to a gallon of water as a foliar spray along with
liquid seaweed. I have opossums and raccoons in my yard and they
don't have problems.

Mine don't have problems either, I have a problem with them.... they eat
my veggies! = O How often are you spraying your garden with the
Molasses? They don't sell liquid seaweed where I live. I don't care to
start ordering things online because the shipping is often as much as the
items to be shipped.

Why did you ask a question if you already know the answer?

I asked what the issues were, the problems with Ironite since I haven't
had any problems using it.

Arsenic poisins the central nervous system, likewise copper and lead. I'm
not going to say it but...
One application of greensand will work for many years, unlike ironite or
seaweed which will quickly break down.

Bill

2008-08-21 16:15:16 UTC

Post by R M. Watkin
Hi All,
What is greensand.?
Richard M. Watkin,

Just So happens greensand is mined 15 miles from here in Marlton, NJ.
USA.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greensand>

I¹d hazard a guess the town got it¹s name from Marl.

<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marl>

I¹ve got a few hundred pounds of it scattered about from 30 years ago.
Breaks down slow I read.

Lots of these questions are answered in ³ Encyclopedia of ORGANIC
Gardening².

<http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field
-keywords=Encyclopedia+of+ORGANIC+Gardening&x=11&y=11>

Bill now out to moving chip 75 F on Aug. 21

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 07:39:04 UTC

Post by R M. Watkin
Hi All,
What is greensand.?

A mineral rich product people use in gardens.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 07:35:56 UTC

Post by polecanoe
Arsenic poisins the central nervous system, likewise copper and lead. I'm
not going to say it but...

It's turned under, not left on the surface.

Post by polecanoe
One application of greensand will work for many years, unlike ironite or
seaweed which will quickly break down.

I called all over looking for greensand and no one knew what I was talking
about. I was offered play sand for kids sandboxes and coarse sand to mix
with concrete. The Nursery in a nearby city knew what it was, but they don't
carry it and can't (or wont) order small amounts. The people on this NG
apparently are wealthy enough to buy all these expensive organic products
and have them shipped. I simply cannot afford that. The cost of gardening
would be so prohibitive it wouldn't pay to garden at all. We're lucky we
found the place to get free mulch to compost... only $4 for the gas to get
there and back with a load.

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-17 16:20:45 UTC

On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:32:09 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

I use Hi-Yield Copperas, which is a powder derived from ferrous
sulfate. It was recommended by more than one organic nursery, is
relatively cheap, and effective.

Penelope

--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed" <***@yahoo.com>

Marie Dodge

2008-08-19 04:43:14 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Sat, 16 Aug 2008 21:32:09 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite?
What
is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal to sell
for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to the
soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water
over the plants several times during the season isn't practical.

I use Hi-Yield Copperas, which is a powder derived from ferrous
sulfate. It was recommended by more than one organic nursery, is
relatively cheap, and effective.

Where do you get it? I've not seen or heard about it here in central TN. Who
carries it?

Post by Jangchub
Penelope
--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-19 12:47:35 UTC

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:43:14 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite?
What
is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal to sell
for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to the
soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water
over the plants several times during the season isn't practical.

You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after
wading through a fair bit of eco-nazi frothing, found this article:

http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120

It was more balanced than any of the others.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I use Hi-Yield Copperas, which is a powder derived from ferrous
sulfate. It was recommended by more than one organic nursery, is
relatively cheap, and effective.

Where do you get it? I've not seen or heard about it here in central TN. Who
carries it?

I think you would have to go to a nursery, not a big box store to get
it. I got it for years from a local organic nursery; but when they
retired, I was still able to get it from a more traditional nursery. I
would just call a few nurseries or plant stores near where you live
and ask if they carry it.

I really miss my organic nursery, they were always willing to try and
get products that I'd read about on the web, or help me find a
suitable alternative. The biggest problem is finding potting soil
without any fertilizer in it, but that's a whine for another post.

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Jangchub

2008-08-19 13:05:09 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:47:35 -0400, Penelope Periwinkle

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after

Eco-nazi? That's insulting, dontca think?

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120
It was more balanced than any of the others.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I use Hi-Yield Copperas, which is a powder derived from ferrous
sulfate. It was recommended by more than one organic nursery, is
relatively cheap, and effective.

Where do you get it? I've not seen or heard about it here in central TN. Who
carries it?

I think you would have to go to a nursery, not a big box store to get
it. I got it for years from a local organic nursery; but when they
retired, I was still able to get it from a more traditional nursery. I
would just call a few nurseries or plant stores near where you live
and ask if they carry it.
I really miss my organic nursery, they were always willing to try and
get products that I'd read about on the web, or help me find a
suitable alternative. The biggest problem is finding potting soil
without any fertilizer in it, but that's a whine for another post.
Penelope

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-19 13:43:07 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:47:35 -0400, Penelope Periwinkle

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after

Eco-nazi? That's insulting, dontca think?

Hit a little too close to home, did I?

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Jangchub

2008-08-19 16:20:06 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 09:43:07 -0400, Penelope Periwinkle

Post by Jangchub
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 08:47:35 -0400, Penelope Periwinkle

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after

Eco-nazi? That's insulting, dontca think?

Hit a little too close to home, did I?
Penelope

No, not at all. It is a bit odd to compare someone who is an organic
gardener who doesn't kill to Nazi's who spent day and night murdering,
raping and torturing people. I think you are a bit off base. It
takes more than that to ruffle my feathers, dear. I'm not some fancy
housewife in Texas. I was raised in Brooklyn NY and don't get insulted
too easily. Your comment said more about you that it will ever say
about me. You insulted people who were murdered, not me.

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-19 19:22:40 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after

Eco-nazi? That's insulting, dontca think?

Hit a little too close to home, did I?

Heh, yeah, your words fair ooze unperturbedness and undefensiveness.

I am, like, all chastised and stuff.

No, really.

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Jangchub

2008-08-19 23:32:34 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 15:22:40 -0400, Penelope Periwinkle

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after

Eco-nazi? That's insulting, dontca think?

Hit a little too close to home, did I?

Heh, yeah, your words fair ooze unperturbedness and undefensiveness.
I am, like, all chastised and stuff.
No, really.
Penelope

Your words are far more telling about you than they are about me. I
didn't chastise you. You made a fool of yourself.

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-20 01:17:57 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 18:32:34 -0500, Jangchub

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after

Eco-nazi? That's insulting, dontca think?

Hit a little too close to home, did I?

Heh, yeah, your words fair ooze unperturbedness and undefensiveness.
I am, like, all chastised and stuff.
No, really.

Your words are far more telling about you than they are about me. I
didn't chastise you.

Exactly! Finally, we agree!

Post by Jangchub
You made a fool of yourself.

Motley becomes me.

Penelope

--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed" <***@yahoo.com>

Billy

2008-08-19 18:40:45 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120
It was more balanced than any of the others.

Eco-nazi frothing? So this is the fair and balanced report?

Let's start with the report itself. There is no opponent's voice
in the article there are just the proponents, Rob Morgan, Ironite's
executive vice president and chief operating officer, Dr. Eberhardt,
Ironite's consultant, and a few commentators.

The most telling quote came from David Shields, a geologist with
a Dallas engineering firm who has worked on lead cleanup projects,
said the key question for consumers is not which forms of lead or
arsenic are the most or least toxic. The EPA does not make that
distinction when it plans residential cleanups, he noted.

Instead, Mr. Shields said, the important question is whether
consumers can make an informed choice. "I'm not telling anyone
they shouldn't use any particular product," Mr. Shields said.
"But lead is lead is lead."

Then there are the Bio-Nazis at EPA
http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm

Release of Heavy Metals from Ironite(R)

Ironite(R) is a common fertilizer made from mine tailings available at any
lawn and garden store. The presence of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has
resulted in its banning in Canada and lawsuits in the United States due
to the potential release of heavy metals, most notably arsenic and lead.
Bioavailable arsenic released from Ironite(R) is dependent on its
mineralogical form. Previous work sponsored by the producer of Ironite(R)
identified the arsenic bearing phase as arsenopyrite with the conclusion
that arsenic in that form does not pose an ecological threat. However, a
closer look with EXAFS has identified the arsenic phase within Ironite(R)
as scorodite-like. Scorodite is more soluble than arsenopyrite, in fact,
the dissolved arsenic released from scorodite can exceed the US drinking
water standard. In addition to the data collected at Argonne National
Labs in February 2005 that identified arsenate sorbed to iron oxides as
the dominant arsenic bearing phase, secondary identification techniques
are currently being used to confirm this finding such as
thermogravimetric analysis and Mossbauer spectroscopy.

Then there are the bio-Nazis over at Garden Web.
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/contain/msg060029533485.html

RE: Ironite, Ironate, or Green Sand

* Posted by jenny_in_se_pa USDA7 Sunset 32 (My Page) on
Fri, Jun 1, 07 at 9:12

I don't recall ever seeing Ironite (or similar iron-promoting products)
recommended for edibles outside of the ericaceous edibles like
blueberries, etc. Ie., these products have generally been targeted
towards ornamentals, and particularly acid-lovers including the
ornamental ericaceous shrubs (rhododendrons, azaleas, pieris, camellias,
gardenias, etc). Chemically, iron is less available within the generic
pH ranges that many cultivated veggies grow in and those vegetables are
adapted differently anyway, without the need for the same types and
levels of micronutrients like iron, as the ericas.

For my blueberries, I have been using Hollytone to keep the soil acidic
and get the iron in that they need for the foliage. Greensand is
supposedly a good source of potassium and iron. The conglomerate of
elements that is targeted in greensand ("glauconite") is a
naturally-occuring (from old sea beds) substance that is mined. Back in
the day (and probably still in the current), many used to or still do
use wood ashes for potassium (potash), although in that form, it can
drive the alkalinity of the soil up. Iron was (and often still is) added
by sticking iron nails around the plants! Greensand is an ingredient in
some Epsoma products that coupled with something like ammonium sulfate,
will lower the surrounding pH enough to help make the iron ions
available when aqueous. The very reactive potassium doesn't need much
(mainly water will do) to make it available.
---------

Utilizing recycled industrial waste products is good stewardship if the
efficacy and safety of such recycling process and final product can be
substantiated and that such standards are being monitored and regulated
periodically. There just seems no reason to financially support for the
use of a product or take on take such risk environmentally or personally
when we do not know that the benefits exceed the costs with some
certainty, especially when better alternatives exist.
-------

Then there is
http://www.envirolaw.org/cases/poisonbg.html

Food Crops that Absorb Contaminants Detected in Fertilizers

Toxin Vulnerable Crops Health Effects of Contaminant
Arsenic Carrots, onions, Carcinogenic
potatoes, other
root crops

Cadmium Lettuce, corn, Kidney disease, carcinogenic, birth
wheat defects, diminished fertility

Lead Fruits and grains Seizures, mental retardation,
behavioral disorders

Dioxin Zucchini, pumpkin, Carcinogenic, diminished fertility,
cucumber birth defects, immune system dysfunction

SOURCES: Agency for Toxic Substances Disease Registry, U.S. Public
Health Service, Environmental Protection Agency. Environment
International Agency for Research on Cancer and Environmental Health
Perspectives.

My question to you Penelope is how much lead, arsenic, and cadmium do
you have to ingest to improve your health?

--
Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Billy

2008-08-19 19:22:33 UTC

In article

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120
It was more balanced than any of the others.

Whoops, I forgot our eco-nazi friends over at Rutgars University.
http://njaes.rutgers.edu/pubs/soilprofile/sp-v16.pdf

While the great majority of commercial fertilizer
products are generally regarded as safe and free of
harmful levels of heavy metal contamination a limited
number of products of concern have been identified in
the garden center and fertilizer dealer market place.
An example of a product of concern that is widely
available in the home garden fertilizer market is
Ironite. A recent study found that Ironite contains up
to 3600 mg/kg As and 2900 mg/kg Pb and that
solubility testing indicates that the product should be
classified as a hazardous waste. On August 15, 2005,
the New Jersey Department of Agriculture issued a
³stop sale² on Ironite 100,
but other Ironite products
remain on the market.
A limited survey of commercial products obtained
from fertilizer dealers in New Jersey, conducted by
Rutgers Cooperative Research and Extension,
identified one zinc product of concern that contained
83 mg/kg Cd (Table 2). Also analysis of a commercial
liming material found a Ni concentration of 194
mg/kg. New Jersey state officials, garden centers and
fertilizer dealers are being informed about these
suspect products.
In New Jersey, commercial fertilizer products are
regulated for guaranteed nutrient concentration by the
New Jersey Department of Agriculture (NJDA).
Although concentrations of nonnutrient
substances in
fertilizers and liming materials are not currently
regulated, the NJDA will, on request from the public,
test product samples for some heavy metals of
concern. When a farmer, gardener, or fertilizer dealer
has concerns about the guaranteed nutrient
concentration in a fertilizer, quality of a liming
material, or possible contamination of a product with
heavy metals, the product in question may be sampled
and tested by the NJDA, P.O. Box 330, Trenton, NJ
08625. Phone: 6099842222.

--
Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://youtu.be/9KVTfcAyYGg
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-19 19:23:54 UTC

Post by Billy
Eco-nazi frothing?

Speaking of...

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Billy

2008-08-19 21:12:22 UTC

Post by Billy
Eco-nazi frothing?

Speaking of...
Penelope

Ah, Penelope, the vituperous vixen: queen of
the fractional entendre and vacuous thoughts. Heil.

--
Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://youtu.be/9KVTfcAyYGg
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Billy

2008-08-19 21:37:39 UTC

In article

Post by Billy
Eco-nazi frothing?

Speaking of...

How did you arrive at giving more credence to the commercial,
ad selling, don't-want-to-offend-any-potential-advertisers DALLAS
MORNING NEWS than say Rutgars University, the EPA, or
the Garden Web? I can imagine your embarrassment, having your
stupidity on display like that, but to go 'tudinal instead of
owning up to your error is childish.

And, we've probably had all the invectives that we may have
needed for a gardening group.

Put up, or shut up.

--
Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://youtu.be/9KVTfcAyYGg
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-20 01:55:12 UTC

Post by Billy
In article

A twofer!

pwned!

hee hee!

A bit of kind advice: read the actual words I posted, not the
ones you've convinced yourself I posted so as to support your
spittle-flecked rant.

Penelope

--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed" <***@yahoo.com>

Billy

2008-08-20 05:19:55 UTC

Post by Billy
In article

A twofer!
pwned!
hee hee!
A bit of kind advice: read the actual words I posted, not the
ones you've convinced yourself I posted so as to support your
spittle-flecked rant.
Penelope

And I, dumb bunny, only used yours ;O)

hee, hee, hee, hee

When you used the Dallas Daily or what ever, you just said that
you thought, it was the most balanced assesment that you had read.
You must have picked some real crap. Bio-nazi wasn't mine.
Bio-nazi is what is known as as an invective in literate circles.
You brought this to the party and you didn't care who you smeared.
You could have said, as Mr. Mr. Shields said. "But lead is lead is
lead."

Why are you here? You can find some other place to jerk-off.
Gardening connects to a lot of areas in our lives but calling
people Bio-nazis is so . . . "Limbaugh", and invectives have no
place in this discussion, unless you have already been smeared
with one, as you did to Jangchub. Apparently, others here knew
you when you were sane, I don't have that advantage. We have
enough potty mouths already, thank you. If you can't express
yourself, don't try.

Grow-up and contribute or go jerk-off somewhere else.

Ironite is poison and you can't even say it. You're freakin'
hopeless. You can argue that it is dilute poison but that is . . .
You said Bio-nazis, and in doing so, and by implication, you
supported a toxic product.

Happy now?

To me you are just a dumb, trying-to-look-clever bitch.

Get real or get lost.

--
Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://youtu.be/9KVTfcAyYGg
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-21 02:39:08 UTC

<snipped, as is civilized>

Post by Billy

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
A bit of kind advice: read the actual words I posted, not the
ones you've convinced yourself I posted so as to support your
spittle-flecked rant.

And I, dumb bunny, only used yours ;O)

Well, see, that's the problem. You didn't use my words, you used
your own honkin' huge assumptions about what I must have really
meant. You assembled a toxic straw man, pretended it was me, and
attacked it with spittle a flyin'.

Meanwhile, I've been over here, on the sidelines, being amused.

Post by Billy
Bio-nazi wasn't mine.

Wasn't mine, either. Where'd it come from?

Post by Billy
Bio-nazi is what is known as as an invective in literate circles.
You brought this to the party and you didn't care who you smeared.
You could have said, as Mr. Mr. Shields said. "But lead is lead is
lead."

Or...more accurately... but frothing is frothing is frothing.

Post by Billy
Why are you here? You can find some other place to jerk-off.
Gardening connects to a lot of areas in our lives but calling
people Bio-nazis is so . . . "Limbaugh",

Who called anyone a bio-nazi?

Post by Billy
and invectives have no
place in this discussion, ...

...except for when you use them, apparently.

Post by Billy
unless you have already been smeared
with one, as you did to Jangchub.

What did I call Jangchub?

Ah ah...not what you assumed, not what you imagined...what I
actually said.

Post by Billy
Apparently, others here knew
you when you were sane, I don't have that advantage.

I'm sure if you get back on your meds, you'll be just fine.

Post by Billy
We have
enough potty mouths already, thank you. If you can't express
yourself, don't try.

Perhaps you should consider your own advice.

Post by Billy
Grow-up and contribute or go jerk-off somewhere else.
Ironite is poison and you can't even say it. You're freakin'
hopeless. You can argue that it is dilute poison but that is . . .
You said Bio-nazis, and in doing so, and by implication, you
supported a toxic product.

See, there's that straw man you've been humping so wildly in post
after post. I hope you at least took the poor thing out for
dinner first.

I will suggest one more time, that you actually read what I
wrote. Wipe the spittle and mucus off your screen, and put your
assumptions in a box on the top shelf of a dark closet so you're
not tempted to take them out and use them. Read all the way to
the bottom.

Post by Billy
Happy now?

Deliriously.

Post by Billy
To me you are just a dumb, trying-to-look-clever bitch.
Get real or get lost.

Buhuhahahahahahahahah!

Penelope

I am not slow of mind. However, sometimes I can fall
on unintelligent acts. <***@yahoo.com>

Billy

2008-08-21 05:42:05 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
<snipped, as is civilized>

Post by Billy

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
A bit of kind advice: read the actual words I posted, not the
ones you've convinced yourself I posted so as to support your
spittle-flecked rant.

And I, dumb bunny, only used yours ;O)

Well, see, that's the problem. You didn't use my words, you used
your own honkin' huge assumptions about what I must have really
meant. You assembled a toxic straw man, pretended it was me, and
attacked it with spittle a flyin'.
Meanwhile, I've been over here, on the sidelines, being amused.

Post by Billy
Bio-nazi wasn't mine.

Wasn't mine, either. Where'd it come from?

Or...more accurately... but frothing is frothing is frothing.

Post by Billy
Why are you here? You can find some other place to jerk-off.
Gardening connects to a lot of areas in our lives but calling
people Bio-nazis is so . . . "Limbaugh",

Who called anyone a bio-nazi?

Post by Billy
and invectives have no
place in this discussion, ...

...except for when you use them, apparently.

Post by Billy
unless you have already been smeared
with one, as you did to Jangchub.

What did I call Jangchub?
Ah ah...not what you assumed, not what you imagined...what I
actually said.

Post by Billy
Apparently, others here knew
you when you were sane, I don't have that advantage.

I'm sure if you get back on your meds, you'll be just fine.

Post by Billy
We have
enough potty mouths already, thank you. If you can't express
yourself, don't try.

Perhaps you should consider your own advice.

See, there's that straw man you've been humping so wildly in post
after post. I hope you at least took the poor thing out for
dinner first.
I will suggest one more time, that you actually read what I
wrote. Wipe the spittle and mucus off your screen, and put your
assumptions in a box on the top shelf of a dark closet so you're
not tempted to take them out and use them. Read all the way to
the bottom.

Post by Billy
Happy now?

Deliriously.

Post by Billy
To me you are just a dumb, trying-to-look-clever bitch.
Get real or get lost.

Buhuhahahahahahahahah!
Penelope
I am not slow of mind. However, sometimes I can fall

I have two computers and can reconstruct the entire interaction, go
intercourse yourself, dear maternal mutt that you are. Bwaha

--
Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://youtu.be/9KVTfcAyYGg
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-21 15:07:11 UTC

Post by Billy
I have two computers and can reconstruct the entire interaction, go
intercourse yourself, dear maternal mutt that you are. Bwaha

But apparently you have difficulty reading it. Hence my suggestion to
wipe the spittle off your screen.

However, I accept your admission of being in error despite its
ungracious nature.

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Billy

2008-08-22 01:55:47 UTC

Post by Billy
I have two computers and can reconstruct the entire interaction, go
intercourse yourself, dear maternal mutt that you are. Bwaha

But apparently you have difficulty reading it. Hence my suggestion to
wipe the spittle off your screen.
However, I accept your admission of being in error despite its
ungracious nature.
Penelope

Not everyone has your lack of social graces. Maybe you could put a sheet
plastic wrap over your screen and then remove it when your spittle load
becomes too thick to read through.

And while you were waxing poetic over your heroin's efforts to face
the cruel vagaries of fate, you might have mentioned to the OP to try
and incorporate small bits of junk iron into their soil to improve its'
iron content or did your expose to rabies affect your mind as well?
;O)

Gardening shouldn't be a great effort, but then maybe some of that
equine manure rubbed off on you.

--
Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://youtu.be/9KVTfcAyYGg
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Marie Dodge

2008-08-20 01:31:34 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:43:14 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite?
What
is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal to sell
for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to the
soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water
over the plants several times during the season isn't practical.

You know, I did a quick google on Ironite this morning, and; after
http://www.dirtdoctor.com/view_question.php?id=120
It was more balanced than any of the others.

It certainly was. Thanks.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I use Hi-Yield Copperas, which is a powder derived from ferrous
sulfate. It was recommended by more than one organic nursery, is
relatively cheap, and effective.

Where do you get it? I've not seen or heard about it here in central TN. Who
carries it?

Will do but organic gardening isn't all that popular where I live. When I
tried to get all organic fertilizers I went into sticker shock. The cost of
blood meal and bone meal are astronomical! You'd think it was gold meal.
People with small gardens can probably afford such prices, those of us with
larger gardens would have to sell our firstborn sons.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I really miss my organic nursery, they were always willing to try and
get products that I'd read about on the web, or help me find a
suitable alternative. The biggest problem is finding potting soil
without any fertilizer in it, but that's a whine for another post.

I've learned to make my own potting soil. It's much cheaper than buying it.
Us retired people have to watch what we spend.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-21 15:01:22 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:31:34 -0500, "Marie Dodge"
<Hi-Yield Copperas>

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I think you would have to go to a nursery, not a big box store to get
it. I got it for years from a local organic nursery; but when they
retired, I was still able to get it from a more traditional nursery. I
would just call a few nurseries or plant stores near where you live
and ask if they carry it.

I understand. There doesn't seem to be much sympathy for people on a
budget or people who don't have easy access to organic products; but I
understand where you're coming from.

Since my fav organic nursery closed two years ago, it's been difficult
to get organic products, and no one place seems to carry more than one
or two, so I end up driving all over the place.

Ad not all the big box stores like Lowe's and Home Depot carry all the
same items, so if they don't appear to have a market for organic
products in an area, that store won't carry them. Both the Lowe's and
the Home Depot nearest me don't carry much in the way of organic
products. I have to go to a Home Depot almost 25 miles away to get to
one that does, and even then, the choices are limited. It hard work to
stay organic around here!

I've learned to make my own potting soil. It's much cheaper than buying it.
Us retired people have to watch what we spend.

I used to make all my own, but I'm not retired, so free time is the
limiting factor for me.

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Bill

2008-08-21 15:38:03 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I understand. There doesn't seem to be much sympathy for people on a
budget or people who don't have easy access to organic products; but I
understand where you're coming from.

I have difficulty with the idea of organic soil amendments that have
the word product included. Sure dried blood, bone meal etc. and other
products are costly. But is it not a fundamental idea to put back into
the soil more than we take out. Aside Bone meal and Creutzfeldt-Jakob
disease scary.
How to do it becomes the issue. Cover crops, manures, anything once
alive. I favor wood chips as I get them delivered for free. Then there
are the trips about to barber shops to take the waste hair. Making
friends with the local high cafeteria folks to take the garbage.
Keeping those teaming microbes alive and well so we can eat off the top
of the chain.

Bill wondering why my eyelid is itching. :))

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Steve Young

2008-08-21 16:07:50 UTC

And coffee shops for their spent grounds

Post by Bill
Keeping those teaming microbes alive and well so we can eat off the top
of the chain.

Not to mention the feast it would provide red worms.
http://www.unclejimswormfarm.com/index.php?show_aux_page=3
Wouldn't be long before a pound turns into 10 pounds :)

Steve Young

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-21 17:25:08 UTC

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:07:50 -0400, "Steve Young"

Post by Steve Young
Not to mention the feast it would provide red worms.
http://www.unclejimswormfarm.com/index.php?show_aux_page=3
Wouldn't be long before a pound turns into 10 pounds :)

So, aren't you concerned about spreading what is considered to be an
invasive species?

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Bill

2008-08-21 18:08:14 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:07:50 -0400, "Steve Young"

Post by Steve Young
Not to mention the feast it would provide red worms.
http://www.unclejimswormfarm.com/index.php?show_aux_page=3
Wouldn't be long before a pound turns into 10 pounds :)

So, aren't you concerned about spreading what is considered to be an
invasive species?
Penelope

Brought over in about 1650. I note the forest has changed due to red
worms and the way the forest recycles leaves. Still 400 years ago? I'd
worry about great lake bilges from world wide shipping traffic.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-21 19:30:51 UTC

Post by Steve Young
Not to mention the feast it would provide red worms.
http://www.unclejimswormfarm.com/index.php?show_aux_page=3
Wouldn't be long before a pound turns into 10 pounds :)

So, aren't you concerned about spreading what is considered to be an
invasive species?

The forests have not all changed. There was an article in a National
Geographic about a fern whose numbers are dropping in Minnisota, I
think. It's a "canary in the coal mine" for the spread of _Lumbricus
rubellus_.

The recommendations I've found suggest freezing all earthworm castings
for several days to a week to kill the worms and cocoons. I've been
trying to find out more information on native earthworms here in South
Carolina and see if I can adapt some sort of vermiculture to their
use. Other than, you know, the compost piled on the ground.

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Steve Young

2008-08-21 18:31:02 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 12:07:50 -0400, "Steve Young"

Post by Steve Young
Not to mention the feast it would provide red worms.
http://www.unclejimswormfarm.com/index.php?show_aux_page=3
Wouldn't be long before a pound turns into 10 pounds :)

So, aren't you concerned about spreading what is considered to be an
invasive species?

Nah, they are most everywhere now.
And they don't like heavy clay soil.
If fed, they pretty much stay put.

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-22 01:42:42 UTC

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:31:02 -0400, "Steve Young"

Post by Steve Young
Not to mention the feast it would provide red worms.
http://www.unclejimswormfarm.com/index.php?show_aux_page=3
Wouldn't be long before a pound turns into 10 pounds :)

So, aren't you concerned about spreading what is considered to be an
invasive species?

Nah, they are most everywhere now.
And they don't like heavy clay soil.
If fed, they pretty much stay put.

How can you get completely hysterical about the damage that one
product does to the enviroment but not give a flaming fart about
another product that is causing the extinction of understory
plants in some of our forests?

Penelope

--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed" <***@yahoo.com>

Billy

2008-08-22 06:13:40 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:31:02 -0400, "Steve Young"

Post by Steve Young
Not to mention the feast it would provide red worms.
http://www.unclejimswormfarm.com/index.php?show_aux_page=3
Wouldn't be long before a pound turns into 10 pounds :)

So, aren't you concerned about spreading what is considered to be an
invasive species?

Nah, they are most everywhere now.
And they don't like heavy clay soil.
If fed, they pretty much stay put.

You really are a steaming pile of equine excrement. He never said that.
you attributed it to him. Do voices tell you these things? Maybe you
should put your foil hat back on, bwahaha ;O)

--
Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
http://youtu.be/9KVTfcAyYGg
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1009916.html

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-21 17:05:13 UTC

I have difficulty with the idea of organic soil amendments that have
the word product included.

Why? Not everyone has the time or the free access you appear to have
to organic...er...materials. Should they be banned from trying to
garden organically?

Post by Bill
Sure dried blood, bone meal etc. and other
products are costly. But is it not a fundamental idea to put back into
the soil more than we take out. Aside Bone meal and Creutzfeldt-Jakob
disease scary.

I don't use bone meal or blood meal for much the same reason. I did go
quite a long distance this spring to get a bag of pelleted soil
amendment that was made from a blend of cotton seed meal and other
goodies like that because it didn't use bone or blood meal. It's still
kinda high in nitrogen, though, so I used it on the lawn this spring,
and set aside a bit to till into the vegetable garden this winter. I
figure it will have been broken down enough by spring that the
nitrogen won't be a problem.

Post by Bill
How to do it becomes the issue. Cover crops, manures, anything once
alive. I favor wood chips as I get them delivered for free. Then there
are the trips about to barber shops to take the waste hair. Making
friends with the local high cafeteria folks to take the garbage.
Keeping those teaming microbes alive and well so we can eat off the top
of the chain.

Maria has already described the steps she takes to incorporate compost
and yard clippings into her garden. I use horse manure, although I
have no one to deliver it, and must find the time to go and load lots
of buckets and trash cans, as many as I can fit into my car. Both of
us still find a need for store bought products once in a while.

I don't use cover crops or green manures because I find the horse
manure already raises the nitrogen in the soil higher than makes me
happy. I can't get yard litter from the city compost pile anymore, it
proved to be such a popular item that the city charges for it, even
for a few grocery bagfuls. Well, I shouldn't say "can't", I could, but
I refuse to pay what they're charging for a product of marginal
quality.

As to begging for...um...materials from cafeteria employees, high or
cold sober, for me it's mostly a time issue. Bully for you that you
have the luxury of time to do things like that. I don't right now.

I would like you to explain the difference to the bacteria, fungi, and
the like between store bought organic products and...uh...materials
you sponged off someone for free?

Post by Bill
Bill wondering why my eyelid is itching. :))

Along as it's not frothing...

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Bill

2008-08-21 18:02:13 UTC

alt.binaries.pictures.nature
I have difficulty with the idea of organic soil amendments that have
the word product included.

Why? Not everyone has the time or the free access you appear to have
to organic...er...materials. Should they be banned from trying to
garden organically?

Nonsense.

Sure dried blood, bone meal etc. and other
products are costly. But is it not a fundamental idea to put back into
the soil more than we take out. Aside Bone meal and Creutzfeldt-Jakob
disease scary.

How to do it becomes the issue. Cover crops, manures, anything once
alive. I favor wood chips as I get them delivered for free. Then there
are the trips about to barber shops to take the waste hair. Making
friends with the local high cafeteria folks to take the garbage.
Keeping those teaming microbes alive and well so we can eat off the top
of the chain.

Not only N2 but humus and other stuff.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
As to begging for...um...materials from cafeteria employees, high or
cold sober, for me it's mostly a time issue. Bully for you that you
have the luxury of time to do things like that. I don't right now.

Begging na just saving. You may not have time is a misnomer. Slow and
steady comes to mind and forget instant gratification. Takes time and
work your job or your hand.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I would like you to explain the difference to the bacteria, fungi, and
the like between store bought organic products and...uh...materials
you sponged off someone for free?

I provide with less effort. Sponged just earned you my disrespect.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-21 19:16:01 UTC

alt.binaries.pictures.nature

Where the hell did that come from? Or did you not snip correctly? I
don't do binaries.

I have difficulty with the idea of organic soil amendments that have
the word product included.

Why? Not everyone has the time or the free access you appear to have
to organic...er...materials. Should they be banned from trying to
garden organically?

Nonsense.

What's nonsense? That not everybody has free time or free access?
You're the one who expressed difficulty grasping the idea of
commercial organic products, so what are they supposed to use when
they can't sponge free stuff?

<...>

Not only N2 but humus and other stuff.

And? Your point?

Begging na just saving. You may not have time is a misnomer.

Have a copy of my schedule, do you? Pray tell, where is all this time
you think I have?

Post by Bill
Slow and
steady comes to mind and forget instant gratification.

What instant gratification? I have a compost pile; I just don't have
time to loiter outside of cafeterias begging for food scraps.

Post by Bill
Takes time and
work your job or your hand.

Work my job or my hand? What if I turn my hand to my job instead of
the excessive masturbation you seem to indulge in.

I provide with less effort.

Less effort for whom? As I pointed out, I don't have time to chat up
stoned cafeteria workers so they'll allow me the privilege of hauling
off their garbage. And, you get wood chips delivered while I have to
go and get my horse manure, so of course you have more time.

Post by Bill
Sponged just earned you my disrespect.

I shall weep into my pillow at night.

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

Steve Young

2008-08-21 18:29:51 UTC

[...]

ahh, the beauty of driving an old clunker

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Both of us still find a need for store bought products
once in a while.

You and your significant other ???

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I don't use cover crops or green manures because I find the horse
manure already raises the nitrogen in the soil higher than makes me
happy. I can't get yard litter from the city compost pile anymore, it
proved to be such a popular item that the city charges for it, even
for a few grocery bagfuls. Well, I shouldn't say "can't", I could, but
I refuse to pay what they're charging for a product of marginal
quality.
As to begging for...um...materials from cafeteria employees, high or
cold sober, for me it's mostly a time issue. Bully for you that you
have the luxury of time to do things like that. I don't right now.

Why do you insert your life / lifestyle over that of the thread originator?
She said she was retired. I would think the purpose of this thread is to
discuss all options / alternatives. After all, we landed on greensand as a
better substitute to her original query on Ironite.

It's no contest with red worms, they prefer garbage any day. Perhaps you're
foolish enough to feed them store bought produce? ;)

Steve Young

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-22 01:52:28 UTC

On Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:29:51 -0400, "Steve Young"
<...>

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Maria has already described the steps she takes to incorporate compost
and yard clippings into her garden.
I use horse manure, although I
have no one to deliver it, and must find the time to go and load lots
of buckets and trash cans, as many as I can fit into my car.

ahh, the beauty of driving an old clunker

Or not.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Both of us still find a need for store bought products
once in a while.

You and your significant other ???

No, the other person in the paragraph that you split up.

<...>

Why do you insert your life / lifestyle over that of the thread originator?

Because Bill addressed his comments to me, not to her. Does your
newsreader not thread properly?

Post by Steve Young
She said she was retired. I would think the purpose of this thread is to
discuss all options / alternatives. After all, we landed on greensand as a
better substitute to her original query on Ironite.

I'm sorry, I didn't see the post where she announced she had
found a local dealer.

It's no contest with red worms, they prefer garbage any day. Perhaps you're
foolish enough to feed them store bought produce? ;)

Why do you insert your life/lifestyle over that of Bill, to whom
this was addressed?

Penelope

--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed" <***@yahoo.com>

phorbin

2008-08-22 03:16:04 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Why do you insert your life/lifestyle over that of Bill, to whom
this was addressed?

Why bother with this at all?

It's not going to go anywhere, so it's not worth the energy.

Your killfile is your friend.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 07:57:59 UTC

I'm sorry, I didn't see the post where she announced she had
found a local dealer.

There are no local dealers. No one has it here. I would have to have it
shipped and that's not feasible.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 07:56:30 UTC

Post by Steve Young
Why do you insert your life / lifestyle over that of the thread originator?
She said she was retired. I would think the purpose of this thread is to
discuss all options / alternatives. After all, we landed on greensand as a
better substitute to her original query on Ironite.

I cannot find greensand locally. I called every store I could think of that
may carry ... see above. Only one place knew what it was but wont order
small amounts.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 07:47:44 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:31:34 -0500, "Marie Dodge"
<Hi-Yield Copperas>

I understand. There doesn't seem to be much sympathy for people on a
budget or people who don't have easy access to organic products; but I
understand where you're coming from.

It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come to.
= O

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Since my fav organic nursery closed two years ago, it's been difficult
to get organic products, and no one place seems to carry more than one
or two, so I end up driving all over the place.

I haven't seen anything here but fish emulsion and can't afford almost $10
for a little bottle of the stuff. It wouldn't be enough for one tomato plant
for the season. I really overspent on insecticides, both organic and
chemical this year due to the WF and spidermites.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Ad not all the big box stores like Lowe's and Home Depot carry all the
same items, so if they don't appear to have a market for organic
products in an area, that store won't carry them. Both the Lowe's and
the Home Depot nearest me don't carry much in the way of organic
products. I have to go to a Home Depot almost 25 miles away to get to
one that does, and even then, the choices are limited. It hard work to
stay organic around here!

That is a trip with the high cost of gas no less.

I've learned to make my own potting soil. It's much cheaper than buying it.
Us retired people have to watch what we spend.

I used to make all my own, but I'm not retired, so free time is the
limiting factor for me.

I have more time and less money. :-)

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."

Jangchub

2008-08-22 11:25:28 UTC

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:47:44 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come to.
= O

Yesterday I bought a bag of Medina granular fertilzer, certified
organic, for 20 dollars and it covers up to 4,000 square feet.

Post by Marie Dodge
I haven't seen anything here but fish emulsion and can't afford almost $10
for a little bottle of the stuff. It wouldn't be enough for one tomato plant
for the season. I really overspent on insecticides, both organic and
chemical this year due to the WF and spidermites.

You use one tablespoon per gallon of water. That bottle will last a
few years!

Post by Marie Dodge
That is a trip with the high cost of gas no less.

Oh, then forget it. Are you on welfare?

Post by Marie Dodge
I have more time and less money. :-)

So use the Ironite.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 20:13:23 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 02:47:44 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come to.
= O

Yesterday I bought a bag of Medina granular fertilzer, certified
organic, for 20 dollars and it covers up to 4,000 square feet.

How nice! Nothing like that here. Clue #2 = not everyone has stores in
their area that sell organic fertilizers.

You use one tablespoon per gallon of water. That bottle will last a
few years!

You're kidding right? One gallon is enough FE for 3 container Tomatoes for
one watering!

Post by Marie Dodge
That is a trip with the high cost of gas no less.

Oh, then forget it. Are you on welfare?

Are you retired and living on SS?

Post by Marie Dodge
I have more time and less money. :-)

So use the Ironite.

I am. ;-) I wanted to know your issues with the product. Has anyone died
from using it in their gardens? Any children suffer from lead inhalation? Is
it being found in veggies grown in soil containing Ironite? I ask a question
and I get a load of people suggesting I purchase all kinds of expensive
products only those with good incomes can afford. I took people's advice on
another Forum to use Organics when the insect infestation started and wasted
over $30 on Neem Oil and Pyrethrum. Neither product made a difference. All
they did was give the insects an unbeatable head start (as I waited for
results) and destroy the garden. By the time I turned to chemicals it was
too late. The plants were totally overrun with spider mites and whitefly.

jellybean stonerfish

2008-08-22 13:18:59 UTC

It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come
to. = O

No as expensive as putting unsafe chemicals on your crops.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 20:14:57 UTC

Post by jellybean stonerfish

It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come
to. = O

No as expensive as putting unsafe chemicals on your crops.

Organic fertilizers do not keep insect infestations from occurring.

zxcvbob

2008-08-22 20:37:25 UTC

Post by jellybean stonerfish

It's truly shocking what the cost of organic farming/gardening has come
to. = O

No as expensive as putting unsafe chemicals on your crops.

Organic fertilizers do not keep insect infestations from occurring.

The theory is that lack of organic nutrients stresses the plants, and
insect pests are attracted to stressed-out plants. The latter part
seems to be true. The first part is a little iffy but it's not totally
false either.

Bob

polecanoe

2008-08-19 03:47:48 UTC

i think it is illegal to sell this toxic waste in most states. get
greensand.

Post by Marie Dodge
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite?
What is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal
to sell for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to the
soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron" water
over the plants several times during the season isn't practical.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-19 04:44:47 UTC

Post by polecanoe
i think it is illegal to sell this toxic waste in most states. get
greensand.

They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

Post by Marie Dodge
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite?
What is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal
to sell for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to
the soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron"
water over the plants several times during the season isn't practical.

polecanoe

2008-08-19 11:20:18 UTC

i'm sure that any reputable garden center can and will get greensand for
you. if you local home depot walmart and lowes don't have it, that is all
the more reason to demand it.

you don't say where you are from, in my state CT the local NOFA has an
annual sale you can also try peaceful valley if you are in CA
www.groworganic.com or Fedco seeds in ME www.fedcoseeds.com should have it.

Post by polecanoe
i think it is illegal to sell this toxic waste in most states. get
greensand.

They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

Post by Marie Dodge
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite?
What is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it legal
to sell for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to add to
the soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling "iron"
water over the plants several times during the season isn't practical.

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-19 13:27:38 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:20:18 -0400, "polecanoe"

Post by polecanoe
i'm sure that any reputable garden center can and will get greensand for
you. if you local home depot walmart and lowes don't have it, that is all
the more reason to demand it.

Actually, as my nephew is fond of saying, that's not correct. Garden
centers generally have to order a set amount of a product, so they're
not going to order a pallet of greensand if they don't feel like
there's a market for it in their area. I've had a very, very
difficult time getting organic products since my favorite nursery
owners retired. I actually ordered 15 5 lb bags of my favorite organic
tomato and pepper fertilizer last year because none of the local
garden centers and nurseries would order it. I figure I got about a 4
or 5 year supply for my garden and my sister's. I had to call almost
every garden center and nursery in the yellow pages before I found one
that carried a good quality potting soil that has no fertilizer in it.

I was very interested in trying some of the Pro-Mix products, and we
even have a wholesale distributor locally; but I couldn't get any of
the nurseries to get some for me. The cost of shipping makes ordering
it on the web prohibitive.

Penelope

--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" <***@everybodycansing.com>

polecanoe

2008-08-20 00:32:20 UTC

If iron is such a scarce mineral, chances are it is scarce for others as
well. You say I am incorrect. How do YOU know there is no market?

the dealers and apparently the buyers too have been duped into thinking that
the only market that exists is for quick fixes. a reputable garden center
would educate it's consumers.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:20:18 -0400, "polecanoe"

Post by polecanoe
i'm sure that any reputable garden center can and will get greensand for
you. if you local home depot walmart and lowes don't have it, that is all
the more reason to demand it.

Actually, as my nephew is fond of saying, that's not correct. Garden
centers generally have to order a set amount of a product, so they're
not going to order a pallet of greensand if they don't feel like
there's a market for it in their area. I've had a very, very
difficult time getting organic products since my favorite nursery
owners retired. I actually ordered 15 5 lb bags of my favorite organic
tomato and pepper fertilizer last year because none of the local
garden centers and nurseries would order it. I figure I got about a 4
or 5 year supply for my garden and my sister's. I had to call almost
every garden center and nursery in the yellow pages before I found one
that carried a good quality potting soil that has no fertilizer in it.
I was very interested in trying some of the Pro-Mix products, and we
even have a wholesale distributor locally; but I couldn't get any of
the nurseries to get some for me. The cost of shipping makes ordering
it on the web prohibitive.
Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."

Penelope Periwinkle

2008-08-20 01:49:56 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 20:32:20 -0400, "polecanoe"
<***@yahoo.com> wrote:

<egregious top posting corrected, as is only civilized>

Post by polecanoe
i'm sure that any reputable garden center can and will get greensand for
you. if you local home depot walmart and lowes don't have it, that is all
the more reason to demand it.

If iron is such a scarce mineral, chances are it is scarce for others as
well. You say I am incorrect. How do YOU know there is no market?

My, but haven't the sensitive lettle fleurs sprouted in my
absence.

Whether you or I think there is a market is irrelevant. Whether
nursery or garden center owners do or don't think there is, or
choose an alternative to either greensand or Ironite is their
prerogative. Those who know their market on both ends stay in
business, those who misjudge it don't. Insisting that they'll
indulge the whims of every single customer is just plain silly.

Post by polecanoe
the dealers and apparently the buyers too have been duped into thinking that
the only market that exists is for quick fixes. a reputable garden center
would educate it's consumers.

Ah, I see the problem. You're defining "reputable garden center"
as only those garden centers who adopt business practices
approved by polecanoe. My definition is a bit broader.

Penelope

I've had a very, very

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
difficult time getting organic products since my favorite nursery
owners retired. I actually ordered 15 5 lb bags of my favorite organic
tomato and pepper fertilizer last year because none of the local
garden centers and nurseries would order it. I figure I got about a 4
or 5 year supply for my garden and my sister's. I had to call almost
every garden center and nursery in the yellow pages before I found one
that carried a good quality potting soil that has no fertilizer in it.
I was very interested in trying some of the Pro-Mix products, and we
even have a wholesale distributor locally; but I couldn't get any of
the nurseries to get some for me. The cost of shipping makes ordering
it on the web prohibitive.
Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."

--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
- "pointed" <***@yahoo.com>

Marie Dodge

2008-08-20 02:33:19 UTC

Post by polecanoe
If iron is such a scarce mineral, chances are it is scarce for others as
well. You say I am incorrect. How do YOU know there is no market?

It's not that no one needs iron for their soil... they don't know what
things like greensand are.

Post by polecanoe
the dealers and apparently the buyers too have been duped into thinking
that the only market that exists is for quick fixes. a reputable garden
center would educate it's consumers.

They don't have the time.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 07:20:18 -0400, "polecanoe"

Post by polecanoe
i'm sure that any reputable garden center can and will get greensand for
you. if you local home depot walmart and lowes don't have it, that is all
the more reason to demand it.

Actually, as my nephew is fond of saying, that's not correct. Garden
centers generally have to order a set amount of a product, so they're
not going to order a pallet of greensand if they don't feel like
there's a market for it in their area. I've had a very, very
difficult time getting organic products since my favorite nursery
owners retired. I actually ordered 15 5 lb bags of my favorite organic
tomato and pepper fertilizer last year because none of the local
garden centers and nurseries would order it. I figure I got about a 4
or 5 year supply for my garden and my sister's. I had to call almost
every garden center and nursery in the yellow pages before I found one
that carried a good quality potting soil that has no fertilizer in it.
I was very interested in trying some of the Pro-Mix products, and we
even have a wholesale distributor locally; but I couldn't get any of
the nurseries to get some for me. The cost of shipping makes ordering
it on the web prohibitive.
Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."

Marie Dodge

2008-08-20 02:28:37 UTC

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
I was very interested in trying some of the Pro-Mix products, and we
even have a wholesale distributor locally; but I couldn't get any of
the nurseries to get some for me. The cost of shipping makes ordering
it on the web prohibitive.

Exactly. I can't afford to have 10 or 25 lbs of greensand shipped.... on top
of the high price they charge for it to start with.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."

Jangchub

2008-08-20 15:33:16 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:28:37 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Exactly. I can't afford to have 10 or 25 lbs of greensand shipped.... on top
of the high price they charge for it to start with.

Post by Penelope Periwinkle
Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."

Send me an email with our location or approximation if you don't want
to give out the exact location and I will find a nursery which sells a
line of organic products, including greensand.

***@yahoo.com

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 08:00:10 UTC

Post by Jangchub
Send me an email with our location or approximation if you don't want
to give out the exact location and I will find a nursery which sells a
line of organic products, including greensand.

Watch your email for my reply.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-20 02:14:04 UTC

Post by polecanoe
i'm sure that any reputable garden center can and will get greensand for
you. if you local home depot walmart and lowes don't have it, that is all
the more reason to demand it.

Demand it? I wish. They'll just tell me "Sorry, we don't carry it."

Post by polecanoe
you don't say where you are from, in my state CT the local NOFA has an
annual sale you can also try peaceful valley if you are in CA
www.groworganic.com or Fedco seeds in ME www.fedcoseeds.com should have it.

I'm in Central TN, not far from Nashville. There's only one Nursery in our
area and they more or less carry the same stuff the big chains carry plus
bone and blood meal. We can't afford these organic meals anymore as they're
$5 to $6 for small bags and we have several gardens. We are however, picking
up loads of organic mulch from a nearby city's shredding lot to work into
the soil this year. We can't generate enough of our own to compost on only
an acre of land.

Post by polecanoe
i think it is illegal to sell this toxic waste in most states. get
greensand.

They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

Post by Marie Dodge
Ironite v. a liquid. What problems have you people had with Ironite?
What is the issue with this product? If it's dangerous, how is it
legal to sell for use in gardens? Is there any other type of iron to
add to the soil/compost besides liquids? With large gardens, sprinkling
"iron" water over the plants several times during the season isn't
practical.

Steve Young

2008-08-20 23:16:13 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
I'm in Central TN, not far from Nashville.
There's only one Nursery in our area and they more or less carry the same
stuff the big chains carry plus bone and blood meal.

I doubt that, though organic supplies are often more difficult to find.
It simply requires a little more searching.

Have you called these people? They seem to be in your neck of the woods:
Dicken's Supply, 814 Cherokee Ave., Nashville, TN 37207 (615) 227-1111
http://www.dickenssupply.com/SOIL%20ADMENDMENTS%20POTTING%20MIXES.htm

Here's another company I purchase from.
Biocontrol Network
5116 Williamsburg Rd, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027
http://www.biconet.com/index.html
Give Eric a jingle, he'll treat you dandy.
(800) 441-BUGS (2847)

Post by Marie Dodge
We can't afford these organic meals anymore as they're $5 to $6 for small
bags and we have several gardens.

You need to find a feed mill that handles grain and livestock feed. A
50lb sack of cotton seed meal $13.75. About the same price for alfalfa meal
and close to the same for a 50lb sack of Fertrell green sand. Though I'm
still looking for an inexpensive local source for 50lb sacks of feather meal
and blood meal. I imagine I could order from the dealer I buy the green sand
from, though I haven't tried.

Post by Marie Dodge
We are however, picking up loads of organic mulch from a nearby city's
shredding lot to work into the soil this year. We can't generate enough of
our own to compost on only an acre of land.

It certainly is more difficult if the land doesn't produce the needed
organic material.

Steve Young

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 08:12:48 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
I'm in Central TN, not far from Nashville.
There's only one Nursery in our area and they more or less carry the same
stuff the big chains carry plus bone and blood meal.

I doubt that, though organic supplies are often more difficult to find.
It simply requires a little more searching.
Dicken's Supply, 814 Cherokee Ave., Nashville, TN 37207 (615) 227-1111
http://www.dickenssupply.com/SOIL%20ADMENDMENTS%20POTTING%20MIXES.htm

I never heard of them. I'm about 30 miles from Nashville and don't shop
there. I'll call them in the morning and see what their prices are like. I
would need enough for say a 900 sq ft garden. I don't see greensand listed
there.

Post by Steve Young
Here's another company I purchase from.
Biocontrol Network
5116 Williamsburg Rd, Brentwood, Tennessee 37027
http://www.biconet.com/index.html
Give Eric a jingle, he'll treat you dandy.
(800) 441-BUGS (2847)

That's quite a distance from here. I don't see soil amendments at the site.

Post by Marie Dodge
We can't afford these organic meals anymore as they're $5 to $6 for small
bags and we have several gardens.

A 50 lbs sack of any of these products wouldn't go anywhere in my gardens.
I'd need at least 8 to10 50 lb sacks to make a difference @ $13.75 each.
How large is your garden BTW?

It certainly is more difficult if the land doesn't produce the needed
organic material.

Aside from the house and gardens, it's all lawn and woods.

Post by Steve Young
Steve Young

Jangchub

2008-08-19 13:00:45 UTC

On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:44:47 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

I saw Home Depot selling it, and I know for sure The Natural Gardener
in Oak Hill sells it. The Great Outdoors on Congress, It's About
Thyme in Taylor, Barton Springs Nursery and Garden Center on Bee Caves
Road.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-20 02:35:20 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:44:47 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

Where are you talking about? What city in which state? Oak Hill? Great
Outdoors? I can check with our local Home Depot but I have never seen it
there.

Jangchub

2008-08-20 15:34:58 UTC

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008 21:35:20 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Jangchub
On Mon, 18 Aug 2008 23:44:47 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Marie Dodge
They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

Where are you talking about? What city in which state? Oak Hill? Great
Outdoors? I can check with our local Home Depot but I have never seen it
there.

I misread and thought you said you were in Central Texas, but I can
see you are in C. Tenn. Let me know a more specific spot and I will
find you an outlet to buy these products.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 08:15:52 UTC

Post by Jangchub
I misread and thought you said you were in Central Texas, but I can
see you are in C. Tenn. Let me know a more specific spot and I will
find you an outlet to buy these products.

I live way out in the country. Murfreesboro is the closest city or town.

Steve Young

2008-08-19 13:22:33 UTC

Post by polecanoe
i think it is illegal to sell this toxic waste in most states. get
greensand.

They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

http://www.fertrell.com/soil_amendments.html
http://www.fertrell.com/outlets.html

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 08:19:42 UTC

Post by polecanoe
i think it is illegal to sell this toxic waste in most states. get
greensand.

They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

http://www.fertrell.com/soil_amendments.html
http://www.fertrell.com/outlets.html

Thanks. It's odd they have no prices listed for their products. People have
to call for prices.

Jangchub

2008-08-22 11:28:35 UTC

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:19:42 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by polecanoe
i think it is illegal to sell this toxic waste in most states. get
greensand.

They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

http://www.fertrell.com/soil_amendments.html
http://www.fertrell.com/outlets.html

Thanks. It's odd they have no prices listed for their products. People have
to call for prices.

That's because prices change. Gas has gone up 75% in the last 8
years.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 20:22:13 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:19:42 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by polecanoe
i think it is illegal to sell this toxic waste in most states. get
greensand.

They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

http://www.fertrell.com/soil_amendments.html
http://www.fertrell.com/outlets.html

Thanks. It's odd they have no prices listed for their products. People have
to call for prices.

That's because prices change. Gas has gone up 75% in the last 8
years.

Oh, I wonder how other sites keep their prices listed then. This is the
first site I've been to in years that doesn't list prices. How am I to know
how many lbs of feathers or other amendments to buy? What rule are you
going by? Lets say for 1000 sq ft garden.

Steve Young

2008-08-22 11:58:52 UTC

Post by polecanoe
i think it is illegal to sell this toxic waste in most states. get
greensand.

They don't sell greensand here that I know of, and I have 3 large veggie
gardens. What well known stores carry it?

http://www.fertrell.com/soil_amendments.html
http://www.fertrell.com/outlets.html

Thanks. It's odd they have no prices listed for their products. People
have to call for prices.

Actually, I gave you the first link so you could see the amendments used for
organic farming, perhaps learn some of the tricks / solutions we have at our
disposal.

I gave you the second link so you could use it as fodder for searching out a
dealer near you. It is a list you could poke and learn. But, alas, all you
want to do is whine about money.

There's a reason why po folks is po folks :(

Steve Young

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 20:28:48 UTC

Post by Steve Young
Actually, I gave you the first link so you could see the amendments used for
organic farming, perhaps learn some of the tricks / solutions we have at our
disposal.
I gave you the second link so you could use it as fodder for searching out a
dealer near you. It is a list you could poke and learn. But, alas, all you
want to do is whine about money.

Alas, I don't have your income and you seem frustrated that not everyone can
afford organic gardening. Why does it bother you so that not everyone has
that kind of money? There was no info there as to how much the products are
or how much is needed for the average garden. So tell me since you're
familiar with the prices... how much would I need for 1000 sw ft garden and
about how much would it cost?

Post by Steve Young
There's a reason why po folks is po folks :(

Yep, unexpected emergencies. Family issues. Job loss. Two serious
accidents in the recent past. High cost of living. We're not all as
fortunate as someone like you.

Post by Steve Young
Steve Young

paghat

2008-08-22 20:50:19 UTC

Post by Marie Dodge
Alas, I don't have your income and you seem frustrated that not everyone can
afford organic gardening.

Is you joshin'? It's too expensive to not have to buy lots of harmful
chemicals for the garden? Or do you mean you can't afford to waist money
on the rarely needed natural products (which tend to cost the same or less
than any other product for the same use) when you have to save funds for
lots of costly chemical swill?

On organically balanced garden with diverse plant species needs no
artificial soil ammendments and is less inclined to pest or disease
problems, incurring few costs. A garden that is out of balance (probably
from chemical use) will be more rather than less susceptible to return of
diseases and pests (for many reasons, such as the fact that harmful
insects bounce back more quickly than the beneficial insects pesticides
also eradicate), inducing the "need" for further purchases of costly
harmful chemicals.

In short, organic gardening is gardening on the cheap! Non-organic methods
feed into themselves -- expense builds on expense.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
visit my temperate gardening website:
http://www.paghat.com
visit my film reviews website:
http://www.weirdwildrealm.com

Bill

2008-08-22 20:59:01 UTC

Post by paghat

Post by Marie Dodge
Alas, I don't have your income and you seem frustrated that not everyone can
afford organic gardening.

Is you joshin'? It's too expensive to not have to buy lots of harmful
chemicals for the garden? Or do you mean you can't afford to waist money
on the rarely needed natural products (which tend to cost the same or less
than any other product for the same use) when you have to save funds for
lots of costly chemical swill?
On organically balanced garden with diverse plant species needs no
artificial soil ammendments and is less inclined to pest or disease
problems, incurring few costs. A garden that is out of balance (probably
from chemical use) will be more rather than less susceptible to return of
diseases and pests (for many reasons, such as the fact that harmful
insects bounce back more quickly than the beneficial insects pesticides
also eradicate), inducing the "need" for further purchases of costly
harmful chemicals.
In short, organic gardening is gardening on the cheap! Non-organic methods
feed into themselves -- expense builds on expense.
-paghat the ratgirl

I killed filed Marie enough is enough.

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

phorbin

2008-08-20 21:46:23 UTC

To answer part of your question...

It's legal to sell it because .gov isn't up to date, isn't there to
protect your interests unless you force the issue, is always there to
protect business interests because business responds to every threat
with the best financed whiners and/or lawyers and/or disinformation
campaigns etc. etc. etc.

And you seem to be trying to convince yourself, that taking some poison
with your convenient solution is acceptable.

It's pretty clear that you are trying to justify using Ironite and any
information that doesn't supply you with the same convenience isn't
going to seem practical to you.

And if your garden is as big as you say it is, how many people are
eating the produce?

That too should weigh in because kids absorb lead far more than adults.

Jangchub

2008-08-20 21:50:56 UTC

Post by phorbin

To answer part of your question...
It's legal to sell it because .gov isn't up to date, isn't there to
protect your interests unless you force the issue, is always there to
protect business interests because business responds to every threat
with the best financed whiners and/or lawyers and/or disinformation
campaigns etc. etc. etc.
And you seem to be trying to convince yourself, that taking some poison
with your convenient solution is acceptable.
It's pretty clear that you are trying to justify using Ironite and any
information that doesn't supply you with the same convenience isn't
going to seem practical to you.
And if your garden is as big as you say it is, how many people are
eating the produce?
That too should weigh in because kids absorb lead far more than adults.

The number one cause of childrens overdose ending in in death is
'merica.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 08:24:42 UTC

Post by Jangchub
The number one cause of childrens overdose ending in in death is
'merica.

No child here has died from eating Ironite. They get the lead from old paint
and some toys from overseas.

Bill

2008-08-22 10:07:33 UTC

Post by Jangchub
The number one cause of childrens overdose ending in in death is
'merica.

No child here has died from eating Ironite. They get the lead from old paint
and some toys from overseas.

Main cause is Iron from vitamins. So keep those vitamins that look
like Fred Flintstone and Iron pills in a secure place.

<http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec21/ch326/ch326i.html>

Bill

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 20:31:19 UTC

Post by Jangchub
The number one cause of childrens overdose ending in in death is
'merica.

No child here has died from eating Ironite. They get the lead from old paint
and some toys from overseas.

Main cause is Iron from vitamins. So keep those vitamins that look
like Fred Flintstone and Iron pills in a secure place.
<http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec21/ch326/ch326i.html>

Since when is LEAD poisoning and IRON poisoning the same thing? Where's the
connection? You're confusing the two elements.

Post by Bill
Bill
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Jangchub

2008-08-22 11:30:09 UTC

On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:24:42 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Jangchub
The number one cause of childrens overdose ending in in death is
'merica.

No child here has died from eating Ironite. They get the lead from old paint
and some toys from overseas.

I didn't say Ironite. I said iron. Children overdose on chewable
vitamins and the reason is liver failure from an overdose of iron. You
failed to quote me correctly.

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 20:32:51 UTC

Post by Jangchub
On Fri, 22 Aug 2008 03:24:42 -0500, "Marie Dodge"

Post by Jangchub
The number one cause of childrens overdose ending in in death is
'merica.

No child here has died from eating Ironite. They get the lead from old paint
and some toys from overseas.

I didn't say Ironite. I said iron. Children overdose on chewable
vitamins and the reason is liver failure from an overdose of iron. You
failed to quote me correctly.

But the subject is/was Ironite and the lead it contains. Who the hell would
feed their child Ironite?

Marie Dodge

2008-08-22 08:23:46 UTC