Who regulates lawn services? (ChemLawn)

[zxcvbob]

I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.

While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

Bob

[chaz]

should be your states agrigulture department

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.
Bob

[Bill R]

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.
Bob

Bob,

Sorry to hear about your garden. Most states regulate the
lawn care industry but, in most cases, the "safe use" of
herbicides is not done very well. You may also check with
your county, some have some regulations that they must follow.

One way to deal with companies like that is to sue them in
small claims court (sometimes not worth the trouble). If
you have a local TV station that has a "consumer affairs"
person, it may be worth it to call them and see if they will
do a story on them (especially if the lawn company gives you
any "lip", which they OFTEN do).

[zxcvbob]

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they
sprayed 2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I
recognized the twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I
even found the little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign,
another neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before
about them leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when
they were done.
Bob

Bob,
Sorry to hear about your garden. Most states regulate the lawn care
industry but, in most cases, the "safe use" of herbicides is not done
very well. You may also check with your county, some have some
regulations that they must follow.
One way to deal with companies like that is to sue them in small claims
court (sometimes not worth the trouble). If you have a local TV station
that has a "consumer affairs" person, it may be worth it to call them
and see if they will do a story on them (especially if the lawn company
gives you any "lip", which they OFTEN do).

This would not be worth suing, because I can't really prove much
economic damage, and it's not very spectacular. The plants may or may
not grow out of the damage, and it's just a few plants affected -- all
my yellow squash and maybe a few of my tomatoes and peppers, but the
tomatoes and peppers have just about recovered. Only the squash was
actually sprayed, and a little drift or overspray onto some raspberries.
They must have used an ester formulation rather than amine, and the
tomatoes and peppers just got a whiff of it.

I think I'd get more satisfaction treating this as an EPA thing or a
criminal tresspass issue; I don't think I could get anyone to take the
criminal complaint seriously, but the regulatory issues should fly if I
can find the right agency to complaint to.

I'm having enough trouble this year with rabbits, squirrels, roaming
cats, and cool nights. I don't need this kind of trouble on top of it.
At least the beans look good and they are growing faster than the
rabbits can eat them.

Best regards,
Bob

[Warren]

Post by zxcvbob

Sorry to hear about your garden. Most states regulate the lawn care
industry but, in most cases, the "safe use" of herbicides is not done
very well. You may also check with your county, some have some
regulations that they must follow.
One way to deal with companies like that is to sue them in small claims
court (sometimes not worth the trouble). If you have a local TV station
that has a "consumer affairs" person, it may be worth it to call them
and see if they will do a story on them (especially if the lawn company
gives you any "lip", which they OFTEN do).

This would not be worth suing, because I can't really prove much
economic damage, and it's not very spectacular. The plants may or may
not grow out of the damage, and it's just a few plants affected -- all
my yellow squash and maybe a few of my tomatoes and peppers, but the
tomatoes and peppers have just about recovered. Only the squash was
actually sprayed, and a little drift or overspray onto some

raspberries.

Post by zxcvbob
They must have used an ester formulation rather than amine, and the
tomatoes and peppers just got a whiff of it.
I think I'd get more satisfaction treating this as an EPA thing or a
criminal tresspass issue; I don't think I could get anyone to take the
criminal complaint seriously, but the regulatory issues should fly if I
can find the right agency to complaint to.
I'm having enough trouble this year with rabbits, squirrels, roaming
cats, and cool nights. I don't need this kind of trouble on top of it.
At least the beans look good and they are growing faster than the
rabbits can eat them.

While I like the idea of the TV station's consumer affairs, if they
don't put the right spin on the story (which is likely if the ChemLawn
people jump at the chance to make things right in front of the camera),
it's just free advertising for ChemLawn. On the other hand, if the
consumer affairs reporter puts the right spin on it, the station could
expand it into a story on how organic gardening is now more in favor
than better living through chemicals.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is having a talk with the
neighbors. Tell them how disappointed you are because of ChemLawn, and
show them the damage. They may not be aware that those chemicals aren't
magic chemicals that only do good. Get the right dialog going, and you
can show them ways they can do without the expense of ChemLawn next
year. It won't save this year's veggies, but it may protect future years
veggies.

Of course call ChemLawn so no one can say you didn't give them a chance
to fix things, but then follow through with complaints to your state's
agriculture department, environmental protection department, any local
county or city departments... well, just about anyone who'll take a
complaint. The complaint may not result in action, but even if they sit
in a file until enough other complaints come in, they doing some good.
--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Get Black and Decker Landscaping Tools Here:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/index.html

[Ray]

Post by Bill R

Post by zxcvbob

Sorry to hear about your garden. Most states regulate the lawn care
industry but, in most cases, the "safe use" of herbicides is not

done

Post by zxcvbob

very well. You may also check with your county, some have some
regulations that they must follow.
One way to deal with companies like that is to sue them in small

claims

Post by zxcvbob

court (sometimes not worth the trouble). If you have a local TV

station

Post by zxcvbob

that has a "consumer affairs" person, it may be worth it to call

them

Post by zxcvbob

and see if they will do a story on them (especially if the lawn

company

Post by zxcvbob

gives you any "lip", which they OFTEN do).

This would not be worth suing, because I can't really prove much
economic damage, and it's not very spectacular. The plants may or may
not grow out of the damage, and it's just a few plants affected -- all
my yellow squash and maybe a few of my tomatoes and peppers, but the
tomatoes and peppers have just about recovered. Only the squash was
actually sprayed, and a little drift or overspray onto some

raspberries.

Post by zxcvbob
They must have used an ester formulation rather than amine, and the
tomatoes and peppers just got a whiff of it.
I think I'd get more satisfaction treating this as an EPA thing or a
criminal tresspass issue; I don't think I could get anyone to take the
criminal complaint seriously, but the regulatory issues should fly

if

Post by Bill R
I

Post by zxcvbob
can find the right agency to complaint to.
I'm having enough trouble this year with rabbits, squirrels, roaming
cats, and cool nights. I don't need this kind of trouble on top of

it.

Post by zxcvbob
At least the beans look good and they are growing faster than the
rabbits can eat them.

While I like the idea of the TV station's consumer affairs, if they
don't put the right spin on the story (which is likely if the ChemLawn
people jump at the chance to make things right in front of the

camera),

Post by Bill R
it's just free advertising for ChemLawn. On the other hand, if the
consumer affairs reporter puts the right spin on it, the station could
expand it into a story on how organic gardening is now more in favor
than better living through chemicals.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is having a talk with the
neighbors. Tell them how disappointed you are because of ChemLawn, and
show them the damage. They may not be aware that those chemicals aren't
magic chemicals that only do good. Get the right dialog going, and you
can show them ways they can do without the expense of ChemLawn next
year. It won't save this year's veggies, but it may protect future years
veggies.
Of course call ChemLawn so no one can say you didn't give them a chance
to fix things, but then follow through with complaints to your state's
agriculture department, environmental protection department, any local
county or city departments... well, just about anyone who'll take a
complaint. The complaint may not result in action, but even if they sit
in a file until enough other complaints come in, they doing some good.
--
Warren H.

A company wide memo telling the sprayers to be careful will help lots of
people. The company suits don't want bad publicity, so they are very
likely to hand down orders 'from on high'.


Ray Drouillard

[Doug Kanter]

Post by Ray
A company wide memo telling the sprayers to be careful will help lots of
people. The company suits don't want bad publicity, so they are very
likely to hand down orders 'from on high'.
Ray Drouillard

Nonsense. If the suits cared about these things, they'd hire people who can
tell the difference between dandelions and zucchini. The best thing to do is
keep the local franchise on edge with as much legal terror and bad publicity
as possible. There is no other way. You're dealing with an industry which
has no scruples.

[Warren]

Post by Doug Kanter
Nonsense. If the suits cared about these things, they'd hire people who can
tell the difference between dandelions and zucchini. The best thing to do is
keep the local franchise on edge with as much legal terror and bad publicity
as possible. There is no other way. You're dealing with an industry which
has no scruples.

If they have no scruples, then they probably also believe in the old
adage that there is no such thing as *bad* publicity.

"Bad" publicity puts your name in front of people who haven't heard it
before.
"Bad" publicity lets people know that someone does the service that they
do.
"Bad" publicity raises awareness of you in the market place.

The only way this "bad" publicity will hurt them is if existing
customers cancel their contracts (which they probably can't). The *bad*
publicity is likely to get them new customers. Why? Because not everyone
will be sympathetic with the protagonist in our story. There will be
people out there who'll say, "This guy was an idiot to plant his
vegetables so close to the property line. You know, I need help with my
lawn. I think I'll call them."

If you're going to take this into the court of public opinion, before
you give the company _any_ publicity, you need to raise awareness about
the harm their sprays do, and how the alternatives are less expensive,
easier, and more effective. You have to get the court of public opinion
to get on your side before you give the company publicity.

As long as there is a significant number of people out there who still
believe in better lawns through chemicals, the *bad* publicity you give
the company isn't going to hurt them, nor will it help you. It'll do
nothing for you, and help them become better known. Free advertising
thanks to you.

Before taking anything to the court of public opinion, you need to stop
and think about how other people think. There are plenty of people out
there who don't think logically. There are plenty of people who have
opinions other than you. There are plenty of people who'll get the wrong
message unless you know how to spin things right.

You can't just toss a couple of facts out there, and hope people will
come to the right conclusion. You must prep them to come to that
conclusion long before you reveal the facts of the situation. And in
this case, every time people go to the Home and Garden sections of
retailers, they see plenty of chemicals. The court of public opinion is
being swayed to believe that chemicals are normal. You have to change
that nearly completely before your complaint against ChemLawn will gain
enough favor in the court of public opinion to actually hurt ChemLawn. A
majority opinion isn't enough. Those with the minority opinion are still
potential customers for ChemLawn, and your case is not *bad* publicity.
It's advertising for them.

Talk to the neighbors. Talk to the company. Report the company to any
agency that will listen. But don't take it to the court of public
opinion, and don't use that as a threat when talking to the company.

Instead, if you really feel the need to address the court of public
opinion, start by showing the benefits of not using chemicals. In a few
years, public opinion may shift, and ChemLawn will loose customers.
Don't just jump out there and start giving them free advertising now.
--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Get Black and Decker Landscaping Tools Here:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/index.html

[Doug Kanter]

Post by Warren
You have to get the court of public opinion
to get on your side before you give the company publicity.

It only requires one judge to issue an injunction, which stops the current
practice in its tracks on a specific piece of property. The rest is gravy.

[Ray]

Post by Doug Kanter

Post by Ray
A company wide memo telling the sprayers to be careful will help lots of
people. The company suits don't want bad publicity, so they are very
likely to hand down orders 'from on high'.
Ray Drouillard

Nonsense. If the suits cared about these things, they'd hire people who can
tell the difference between dandelions and zucchini. The best thing to do is
keep the local franchise on edge with as much legal terror and bad publicity
as possible. There is no other way. You're dealing with an industry which
has no scruples.

The suits care about profit. It would cost more to hire non-idiots, but
handing down a memo is almost free.


Ray

[Doug Kanter]

Post by Ray

Post by Doug Kanter

Post by Ray
A company wide memo telling the sprayers to be careful will help

lots of

Post by Doug Kanter

Post by Ray
people. The company suits don't want bad publicity, so they are

very

Post by Doug Kanter

Post by Ray
likely to hand down orders 'from on high'.
Ray Drouillard

Nonsense. If the suits cared about these things, they'd hire people

who can

Post by Doug Kanter
tell the difference between dandelions and zucchini. The best thing to

do is

Post by Doug Kanter
keep the local franchise on edge with as much legal terror and bad

publicity

Post by Doug Kanter
as possible. There is no other way. You're dealing with an industry

which

Post by Doug Kanter
has no scruples.

The suits care about profit. It would cost more to hire non-idiots, but
handing down a memo is almost free.
Ray

Good for the suits, but not you and I, and our children. The idiots they
hire can't read, so a memo is pointless.

[Doug Kanter]

Post by zxcvbob
I think I'd get more satisfaction treating this as an EPA thing or a
criminal tresspass issue; I don't think I could get anyone to take the
criminal complaint seriously, but the regulatory issues should fly if I
can find the right agency to complaint to.

See my other post. Trespass is the way to go. You'll need to show pictures
to a judge, indicating that since your vegetables are near the property
line, Chem Lawn cannot spray anywhere near that line. Get on this
immediately.

It's unlikely that you'll be able to get any sort of monetary reward for
your plants. But, keep in mind that it's probably not safe to eat anything
from the ones which recover, at least during this season. For more about
this, contact your state's environmental department.

[Ray]

Post by zxcvbob

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they
sprayed 2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I
recognized the twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I
even found the little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign,
another neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before
about them leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when
they were done.
Bob

Bob,
Sorry to hear about your garden. Most states regulate the lawn care
industry but, in most cases, the "safe use" of herbicides is not done
very well. You may also check with your county, some have some
regulations that they must follow.
One way to deal with companies like that is to sue them in small claims
court (sometimes not worth the trouble). If you have a local TV station
that has a "consumer affairs" person, it may be worth it to call them
and see if they will do a story on them (especially if the lawn company
gives you any "lip", which they OFTEN do).

This would not be worth suing, because I can't really prove much
economic damage, and it's not very spectacular. The plants may or may
not grow out of the damage, and it's just a few plants affected -- all
my yellow squash and maybe a few of my tomatoes and peppers, but the
tomatoes and peppers have just about recovered. Only the squash was
actually sprayed, and a little drift or overspray onto some

raspberries.

Post by zxcvbob
They must have used an ester formulation rather than amine, and the
tomatoes and peppers just got a whiff of it.
I think I'd get more satisfaction treating this as an EPA thing or a
criminal tresspass issue; I don't think I could get anyone to take the
criminal complaint seriously, but the regulatory issues should fly if I
can find the right agency to complaint to.
I'm having enough trouble this year with rabbits, squirrels, roaming
cats, and cool nights. I don't need this kind of trouble on top of it.
At least the beans look good and they are growing faster than the
rabbits can eat them.
Best regards,
Bob

Getting money from them isn't the point. The point is that they have to
pay someone (not a lawyer) to go to small claims court and deal with the
issue. This should result in a company-wide memo warning their sprayers
to avoid gardens.

This will not only keep it from happening to you again, it'll help a
whole lot of other gardeners.



Ray Drouillard

[Doug Kanter]

***IMMEDIATELY*** call your town hall when they open on Monday morning and
find out what your judge needs (paperwork, photographs, etc) in order to
charge the spray service with civil trespass. You can include the neighbor,
too, if they become beligerent about the situation. I went through this
successfully about 4 years ago here in Rochester NY.

If anyone wants to start a debate about whether this qualifies as trespass,
please save your energy. This is not a guess or a theory on my part. Our
local judge was prepared to issue an injunction to keep my neighbor from
allowing Chem Lawn to spray along our property border. He told me to inform
my neighbor and the spray company that the police would be ordered to arrest
them on the spot if the stupidity continued. This did the trick nicely.

Unfortunately, lawn spray companies will hire anything with a driver's
license during the busy season. Doesn't matter how stupid they are, and they
most definitely ARE stupid.

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.
Bob

[zxcvbob]

Interestingly, this is a subsidized house owned by the county. The
county owns and maintains it and rents it out to poor people. I'm
pretty sure the county hires the lawn service, not the occupant -- so I
would be injoining the sheriff. <g>
The county attorney's office is who I'll call first about the civil
trespass.

Thanks, regards,
Bob

Post by Doug Kanter
***IMMEDIATELY*** call your town hall when they open on Monday morning and
find out what your judge needs (paperwork, photographs, etc) in order to
charge the spray service with civil trespass. You can include the neighbor,
too, if they become beligerent about the situation. I went through this
successfully about 4 years ago here in Rochester NY.
If anyone wants to start a debate about whether this qualifies as trespass,
please save your energy. This is not a guess or a theory on my part. Our
local judge was prepared to issue an injunction to keep my neighbor from
allowing Chem Lawn to spray along our property border. He told me to inform
my neighbor and the spray company that the police would be ordered to arrest
them on the spot if the stupidity continued. This did the trick nicely.
Unfortunately, lawn spray companies will hire anything with a driver's
license during the busy season. Doesn't matter how stupid they are, and they
most definitely ARE stupid.

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.
Bob

[Warren]

Post by Doug Kanter
***IMMEDIATELY*** call your town hall when they open on Monday morning and
find out what your judge needs (paperwork, photographs, etc) in order to
charge the spray service with civil trespass. You can include the neighbor,
too, if they become beligerent about the situation. I went through this
successfully about 4 years ago here in Rochester NY.
If anyone wants to start a debate about whether this qualifies as trespass,
please save your energy. This is not a guess or a theory on my part. Our
local judge was prepared to issue an injunction to keep my neighbor from
allowing Chem Lawn to spray along our property border. He told me to inform
my neighbor and the spray company that the police would be ordered to arrest
them on the spot if the stupidity continued. This did the trick nicely.

Oh, I can't pass this up.

Trespass is defined by state statute. What's true in New York may not be
true elsewhere.

A few years ago there was some debate about some guy in New York being
arrested at a shopping center for something or another. In the middle of
that debate I decided to go to the horse's mouth, and read the New York
statutes. They were quite different than other states. As I recall there
were even degrees of trespass, some being civil, and others being
criminal.

As for going down to the "town hall" to get a judge, that's a bit of a
unique thing by area as well. When I lived in Wisconsin, nearly every
incorporated municipality had a court. Out here in Oregon, few do. In
both places, you don't just go down and get to see a judge. You have to
file a motion, and be placed on a docket or calendar. And when you file
your motion, you need to specify which particular law is being broken,
and how. If you are seeking a remedy, you're going to need to specify
that as well. Unless you're really savvy, and have some time on your
hands, you're going to need a lawyer to get through this process.

You may also find that in many places cases like this (involving little
monetary damage, and not likely to be an immediate danger to health or
safety) your case will be diverted from the court system to mediation.

If running down to town hall, and showing a judge some pictures that
morning works were you are, then that's a viable option. I'd have to say
you're in the minority.

Also, since the OP has added the information that the house is owned by
the county, and rented, it probably wouldn't even be as simple as your
situation even if that unique option was available. In most places a
municipal judge doesn't have jurisdiction to order the county to do
anything.

The court system is seldom the answer to neighbor disputes. And it
certainly should never be the first thing anyone tries.
--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Get Black and Decker Landscaping Tools Here:
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/blackanddecker/index.html

[Doug Kanter]

This post might be inappropriate. Click to display it.

[Glenna Rose]

With total respect to all of the previous responses (which included good
suggestions), I offer the following.

Your neighbor may not even have been aware of what they were doing (though
the word "Chem" in their name ought to be telling). Do talk to your
neighbor about the issue.

Additionally . . .

If you are inside city limits, take your concerns to City Council. Have
your comments prepared in writing to give them a written copy (and to
ensure you say what you intend to say). There is often a time limit of 3
minutes for each citizen, so clarify prior to attending.

If not inside the city limits, take it to the County Commission, same way.

In most communities in our electronic age, all meetings are taped and
shown on the local city/county televisions channels. You are most
definitely not the only one in your community concerned about this. The
more people that speak up about it, the more chance of something being
done.

I see your issues as including:
- Damage to your previously chemical-free garden. If you wanted chemicals,
you'd buy at the grocery store. The chemicals drifting into your garden
are now a permanent part of your soil and the food grown in it; they can
say they dissipate all they want to . . . they go somewhere! (I say that
as a downwinder from Hanford's 1950s "harmless" radioactive releases!)
- There is potential damage to anyone with breathing problems or immune
system problems with the spray drifting into your yard or onto public
property (sidewalks/streets).
- There is potential damage to small children playing in your yard,
especially at the time of spraying. Their systems are not as able to deal
with this type of thing as an adult . . . don't let anyone ever tell you
that "there is no harm" because no one knows!

Approach it all in a very logical and professional (unemotional) manner
with facts, not opinions. The time for the opinion is at the end when you
summarize but have it all supported with previous facts, which are
primarily your property did receive a chemical which you did not authorize
and you have damage as a result, as well as concerns.

I can assure you if this were my yard, my 3-year-old and 5-year-old
granddaughters would very much figure into how I handled this. I would
include a letter to the neighbor voicing my complaint and concerns, as
well as one to the City Manager, the Mayor, and each member of City
Council. The offending company would also get a letter as would the
County Health Department. In other words, no possible responder would be
forgotten, and this would get as much attention as I could have it get.
No one has the moral right to spray chemicals onto your property, either
accidently or purposefully. All chemicals intended for spraying include
cautions about drifting/air movement direction, so the applicators cannot
claim ignorance. The only sure way to ensure against drifting is to not
spray the stuff.

Nearly 20 years ago, I hired someone to mow the lawn at the office. A few
days later, I noticed the grass dying around the planter under my sign as
well as next to the sidewalk. I confronted him about this. He had put a
weed-killer (casaron) on my lawn with neither my permission nor my
knowledge. Needless to say, he did no more work for me. The worst part
of it was that he really didn't feel he did anything inappropriate,
pouring poison onto my property. In my simple mind, mowing and spreading
a toxic agent is not the same thing.

Good luck and my sympathies to your plants.

Glenna

[Tony]

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in court
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like
this.)

If you have the equipment and can estimate when they'll be returning, it
might be worth setting up something that would videotape them completing the
service.

A friend of mine used to use our local ChemLawn company to do his yard. His
neighbor worked for the FBI. One day while the neighbor was working at home
he saw the ChemLawn guy drive up, get out of the vehicle, write up a bill,
and place it on the customer's door. He never actually did any kind of
service. Rather than drop the company upon finding out about this, he
arranged some video equipment he had to tape when the company came out the
next time and had a videotape showing a repeat of the previous occurence.

It's amazing how quickly one can get a refund for all money paid when the
company is presented with clear video evidence.

Tony

[zxcvbob]

Post by Tony

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in court
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like
this.)

I have strong circumstantial evidence, but IMHO physical evidence is
stronger than the testimony of one eye witness. Ideally, I would have
videotape, or physical evidence plus a half-dozen eye witnesses... but
if I'd known ahead of time that this was going to happen I could have
confronted the guy.

I like the idea of catching him on video next time, but I don't have the
means to do that. I may try to find out when they are coming back to
this neighborhood and plan to be home that day.

Meanwhile, I can complain to whoever issued their business license,
franchise, pesticide license, etc. If any of these are suspended for a
while, they could lose a lot of customers when they can't fullfill their
season-long lawn service contracts.

Thanks, regards,
Bob

[Doug Kanter]

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in court
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like
this.)

I have strong circumstantial evidence, but IMHO physical evidence is
stronger than the testimony of one eye witness. Ideally, I would have
videotape, or physical evidence plus a half-dozen eye witnesses... but
if I'd known ahead of time that this was going to happen I could have
confronted the guy.
I like the idea of catching him on video next time, but I don't have the
means to do that. I may try to find out when they are coming back to
this neighborhood and plan to be home that day.
Meanwhile, I can complain to whoever issued their business license,
franchise, pesticide license, etc. If any of these are suspended for a
while, they could lose a lot of customers when they can't fullfill their
season-long lawn service contracts.
Thanks, regards,
Bob

Although it won't help in your present dilemma, get in touch with your
county & state legislators and see if anyone's already discussing the idea
of forcing the lawn spray idiots to give neighbors 2-3 days' notice before
they treat lawns. It's gone back and forth in my county legislature.
Unfortunately, the chemical companies are still playing golf with the right
people in government, but we're closing to having a law here.

[Bob]

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually

see the

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion?

(I'm not

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know

that in court

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a

situation like

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
this.)

I have strong circumstantial evidence, but IMHO physical

evidence is

Post by zxcvbob
stronger than the testimony of one eye witness. Ideally, I

would have

Post by zxcvbob
videotape, or physical evidence plus a half-dozen eye

witnesses... but

Post by zxcvbob
if I'd known ahead of time that this was going to happen I

could have

Post by zxcvbob
confronted the guy.
I like the idea of catching him on video next time, but I don't have the
means to do that. I may try to find out when they are coming

back to

Post by zxcvbob
this neighborhood and plan to be home that day.
Meanwhile, I can complain to whoever issued their business

license,

Post by zxcvbob
franchise, pesticide license, etc. If any of these are

suspended for a

Post by zxcvbob
while, they could lose a lot of customers when they can't

fullfill their

Post by zxcvbob
season-long lawn service contracts.

A number of years ago, An old man across the street sprayed a
shrub in his neighbor's yard he didn't like with herbicide. A
tree sprayer hired by the neighbor noticed the damage, and after
questioning the neighbor, reported the action to the state E.P.A.
They came out and gave a stern talking to the old man.

Would you really consider anything grown after being sprayed with
2,4,d to be something you'd feed to your family. I'd consider the
entire area to be contaminated, requiring replacement of the soil
before use for a vegetable garden.

Bob

[Doug Kanter]

Post by Tony

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually

see the

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion?

(I'm not

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know

that in court

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a

situation like

Post by zxcvbob

Post by Tony
this.)

I have strong circumstantial evidence, but IMHO physical

evidence is

Post by zxcvbob
stronger than the testimony of one eye witness. Ideally, I

would have

Post by zxcvbob
videotape, or physical evidence plus a half-dozen eye

witnesses... but

Post by zxcvbob
if I'd known ahead of time that this was going to happen I

could have

Post by zxcvbob
confronted the guy.
I like the idea of catching him on video next time, but I don't

have the

Post by zxcvbob
means to do that. I may try to find out when they are coming

back to

Post by zxcvbob
this neighborhood and plan to be home that day.
Meanwhile, I can complain to whoever issued their business

license,

Post by zxcvbob
franchise, pesticide license, etc. If any of these are

suspended for a

Post by zxcvbob
while, they could lose a lot of customers when they can't

fullfill their

Post by zxcvbob
season-long lawn service contracts.

A number of years ago, An old man across the street sprayed a
shrub in his neighbor's yard he didn't like with herbicide. A
tree sprayer hired by the neighbor noticed the damage, and after
questioning the neighbor, reported the action to the state E.P.A.
They came out and gave a stern talking to the old man.
Would you really consider anything grown after being sprayed with
2,4,d to be something you'd feed to your family. I'd consider the
entire area to be contaminated, requiring replacement of the soil
before use for a vegetable garden.
Bob

I'm glad I'm not the only one who finds this kind of thing outrageous.

[Doug Kanter]

Post by Tony

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.

One thing I was unclear of from your post: did you actually see the
ChemLawn guy spraying or do you just have a strong suspicion? (I'm not
doubting that it happened as you say it did, but I also know that in court
you'd need more than strong circumstantial evidence in a situation like
this.)

The OP's state environmental agency can refer him to a laboratory which can
test plant samples for the presence of the suspected chemicals.

[starlord]

If they use over the counter stuff, no license are needed.

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.
Bob

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.721 / Virus Database: 477 - Release Date: 7/16/04

[Don Tveter]

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.
Bob

Chemlawn got me a few years ago, here's what happened:

http://www.dontveter.com/howtogrow/chemlawn.html

Don Tveter

[Hound Dog]

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?
The bastards treated my neighbor's back yard last week, and they sprayed
2,4-d through the fence and into my vegetable garden. I recognized the
twisted new growth as being herbicide damage before I even found the
little ChemLawn sign in their front yard.
While I was writing down the phone number from the little sign, another
neighbor came by and said he's complained to ChemLawn before about them
leaving Weed-n-Feed granules all over the sidewalk when they were done.
Bob

Perhaps your neighbor should have treated his own lawn, then your entire
garden may have been ruined.

[Chelsea Christenson]

Post by zxcvbob
I figure they must have a commercial "applicators license" to use
herbicides. Who issues that license?

Aside from the licensing issue, you might also complain to the Better
Business Bureau.