Composting Office Paper

[Down Under On The Bucket Farm]

I have read that it is a bad idea to compost paper with certain
types of ink (e.g. newspapers that use non-soy inks.)

Does anybody know if office documents from an inkjet printer
(black only) should be also be avoided?

Thanks in advance.

[Chris Owens]

Post by Down Under On The Bucket Farm
I have read that it is a bad idea to compost paper with certain
types of ink (e.g. newspapers that use non-soy inks.)
Does anybody know if office documents from an inkjet printer
(black only) should be also be avoided?

Unless your inkjet is using special metallic inks -- you'd know,
they glitter and are even more hellishly expensive than regular
inkjet cartridges -- the ink in the cartridges is soy-based.

Chris Owens




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[Chris Owens]

I have read that it is a badX-Mozilla-Status: 0009 with certain
types of ink (e.g. newspapers that use non-soy inks.)
Does anybody know if office documents from an inkjet printer
(black only) should be also be avoided?

Unless your inkjet is using special metallic inks -- you'd know,
they glitter and are even more hellishly expensive than regular
inkjet cartridges -- the ink in the cartridges is soy-based.

Chris Owens


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[Phaedrine Stonebridge]

Post by Chris Owens

I have read that it is a badX-Mozilla-Status: 0009 with certain
types of ink (e.g. newspapers that use non-soy inks.)
Does anybody know if office documents from an inkjet printer
(black only) should be also be avoided?

Unless your inkjet is using special metallic inks -- you'd know,
they glitter and are even more hellishly expensive than regular
inkjet cartridges -- the ink in the cartridges is soy-based.

Well that is great to know. How about laser printer rejects? Is that
ink also safe?

[Warren]

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge
Well that is great to know. How about laser printer rejects? Is that
ink also safe?

Laser printers don't use ink. "Toner" is melted, and fused onto paper.
That toner can be made of a lot of different things, but usually
includes polyester resins, silicon derivatives, waxes and metals such as
iron oxide. Color toner may contain other metals and plastics to create
the color.

If you have an HP LaserJet printer and you want to know what's in the
toner, you can check-out the Material Safety Data Sheets for the various
toners here:

http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/environment/productdata/ljmsdseng.html

You may note that the toner used in printers built just a few years ago
may differ substantially from toner for newer printers. Generally the
newer toners use smaller particles than the older toners, and that means
different raw materials. Generally toxic materials are avoided because
of the possibility that toner may be inhaled when cleaning the printer.

While I have not read all of the sixty-plus MSDS's for current HP toner,
I would be surprised if you found one with elements that would be
harmful in a compost pile, and certainly not at the levels you would be
putting in to the pile. (A typical printed page only has toner covering
about 5% of the surface area, and your pile isn't going to be mostly
paper, either.) I wouldn't dump loose toner into the pile, though!

IMHO, the residue from the bleaching process used to make the paper
white-white-white is probably more of a concern than the toner fused to
the paper.
--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/

[Phaedrine Stonebridge]

Post by Warren

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge
Well that is great to know. How about laser printer rejects? Is that
ink also safe?

Laser printers don't use ink. "Toner" is melted, and fused onto paper.
That toner can be made of a lot of different things, but usually
includes polyester resins, silicon derivatives, waxes and metals such as
iron oxide. Color toner may contain other metals and plastics to create
the color.
If you have an HP LaserJet printer and you want to know what's in the
toner, you can check-out the Material Safety Data Sheets for the various
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/globalcitizenship/environment/productdata/ljmsdseng.h
tml
You may note that the toner used in printers built just a few years ago
may differ substantially from toner for newer printers. Generally the
newer toners use smaller particles than the older toners, and that means
different raw materials. Generally toxic materials are avoided because
of the possibility that toner may be inhaled when cleaning the printer.
While I have not read all of the sixty-plus MSDS's for current HP toner,
I would be surprised if you found one with elements that would be
harmful in a compost pile, and certainly not at the levels you would be
putting in to the pile. (A typical printed page only has toner covering
about 5% of the surface area, and your pile isn't going to be mostly
paper, either.) I wouldn't dump loose toner into the pile, though!
IMHO, the residue from the bleaching process used to make the paper
white-white-white is probably more of a concern than the toner fused to
the paper.

Wow that was a lot of information and I really appreciate your time. So
you are saying that, independent of the ink, it is just not a good idea
to be using either laser or injet rejects in the compost because of the
bleach residue?

.

[Warren]

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge
Wow that was a lot of information and I really appreciate your time.

So

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge
you are saying that, independent of the ink, it is just not a good idea
to be using either laser or injet rejects in the compost because of the
bleach residue?

Neither concerns *me*. But it seems to me that people who get worried
about these kinds of insignificant things are missing something even
bigger in their quest to micromanage what goes into their pile. Like I
said, the printing on a typical piece of paper is only on about 5% of
it's surface area, yet discussion always seems to focus on that, and
never gets around to discussing what's in the paper itself.
--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/

[P***@Underworld.com]

Post by Warren

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge
Wow that was a lot of information and I really appreciate your time.

So

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge
you are saying that, independent of the ink, it is just not a good

idea

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge
to be using either laser or injet rejects in the compost because of

the

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge
bleach residue?

Neither concerns *me*. But it seems to me that people who get worried
about these kinds of insignificant things are missing something even
bigger in their quest to micromanage what goes into their pile. Like I
said, the printing on a typical piece of paper is only on about 5% of
it's surface area, yet discussion always seems to focus on that, and
never gets around to discussing what's in the paper itself.

My community picks up recyclables, including office paper.
If yours does too, that might be a better of dealing with the paper.

--

Persephone

[Phaedrine Stonebridge]

Post by Warren

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge
Wow that was a lot of information and I really appreciate your
time. So you are saying that, independent of the ink, it is just
not a good idea to be using either laser or injet rejects in the
compost because of the bleach residue?

Neither concerns *me*. But it seems to me that people who get
worried about these kinds of insignificant things are missing
something even bigger in their quest to micromanage what goes into
their pile. Like I said, the printing on a typical piece of paper is
only on about 5% of it's surface area, yet discussion always seems
to focus on that, and never gets around to discussing what's in the
paper itself.

My community picks up recyclables, including office paper. If yours
does too, that might be a better of dealing with the paper.

Mine does not recycle office paper.

[Chris Owens]

Post by P***@Underworld.com

Post by Warren
Neither concerns *me*. But it seems to me that people who get worried
about these kinds of insignificant things are missing something even
bigger in their quest to micromanage what goes into their pile. Like I
said, the printing on a typical piece of paper is only on about 5% of
it's surface area, yet discussion always seems to focus on that, and
never gets around to discussing what's in the paper itself.

My community picks up recyclables, including office paper.
If yours does too, that might be a better of dealing with the paper.

Check to see what they do with the paper first. Many communities
take stuff from the recycling boxes straight to the local
landfill.

Chris Owens




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[Warren]

Post by Chris Owens
Check to see what they do with the paper first. Many communities
take stuff from the recycling boxes straight to the local
landfill.

That's a myth.

While I won't say there has never been a community that has ever dumped
certain materials when the market dipped, many states have laws that put
caps on the amount of "recycled" materials that can be sent to the
landfill, and that cap is usually barely enough for legitimately spoiled
items.

If "recycled" goods could just be dumped into the landfill with no
controls, there would be no resistance from the cities when people ask
for additional materials to be collected. You don't hear: "Scrap wood?
Sure! We'll add it to the list! After all, we'll just turn around and
dump it anyway!" What you do hear is: "Scrap wood? Sorry, but there
currently is no market, we don't have the storage space to keep it until
there is a market, nor do we have the money to pay someone to recycle it
into something."

Essentially you can file the myth of recycling goods going straight to
the landfill right next to the myth that hospitals declare organ donors
dead sooner than others so they can harvest more organs. Just more scare
stories spread by people who can't stand it when someone else does
something good.
--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug:
Support me at: http://www.holzemville.com/mall/

[truebador]

Post by Warren

Post by Chris Owens
Check to see what they do with the paper first. Many communities
take stuff from the recycling boxes straight to the local
landfill.

That's a myth.

Its not a myth. I watched our local municpal garbage men just last week
pick up the recylce bin and dump it in with the regular trash. If thats
what they want to do, I don't really care.

[Chris Owens]

Post by P***@Underworld.com

Post by Warren
Neither concerns *me*. But it seems to me that people who get worried
about these kinds of insignificant things are missing something even
bigger in their quest to micromanage what goes into their pile. Like I
said, the printing on a typical piece of paper is only on about 5% of
it's surface area, yet discussion always seems to focus on that, and
never gets around to discussing what's in the paper itself.

My community picks up recyclables, including office paper.
If yours does too, that might be a better of dealing with the paper.

Check to see what they do with the paper first. Many communities
take stuff from the recycling boxes straight to the local
landfill.

Chris Owens


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http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

[Anonymous]

Post by P***@Underworld.com
My community picks up recyclables, including office paper.
If yours does too, that might be a better of dealing with the paper.

My city does not ... but even if they did, I would not be donating my
scrap paper to them. I would still compost it, as I do now. My reading on
composting tells me to rely on a hot compost pile and a long aging cycle
(at least 1 year) to detoxify darn near anything that might get dumped
into the pile. Even diesel fuel, PCB's and DDT vanish (IIRC, PCB's need 2
years aging).

What's the worry about trace amounts of bleach that somehow managed to
avoid getting neutralized during processing? By the time it goes through a
compost pile and gets to the garden, it will no longer be the same
chemical anyway. By the time that ink or bleach gets to the garden,
environmental pollution in the form of the dust falling from the air will
be a FAR larger concern ... and, unless you live in Bhopal, you somehow
manage to survive that, right?

So shred, compost, garden, harvest, enjoy. Sweat the small stuff if you
want, but leave the 'parts per trillion' worries to people who get paid to
worry about it.

Bill

[Stephen M. Henning]

Post by Anonymous
My reading on
composting tells me to rely on a hot compost pile and a long aging cycle
(at least 1 year) to detoxify darn near anything that might get dumped
into the pile. Even diesel fuel, PCB's and DDT vanish (IIRC, PCB's need 2
years aging).

Be careful about what you read. Composting will never remove heavy
metals which are present in the color sections of newspapers and most
organic waste from the top of the food chain. They are toxic and are
never removed by composting. Composting never removes elemental toxins,
it can just convert molecular toxins. Also, don't be mislead about the
high temperatures of composting. Even incinerators don't break down all
toxic waste into harmless substances. That is why so many people are
objecting to having waste incinerators in their neighborhoods.

[Max]

Post by Stephen M. Henning
Be careful about what you read. Composting will never remove heavy
metals which are present in the color sections of newspapers and most

--SNIP--


While back, there was a gent who posted calling himself "Jim the
Compost Man." Really knew his stuff, I learned a lot from him.
Wish he was still around! Anyway, he addressed this issue. I
have it saved off and thought I'd re-post it. He addressed
colored paper and soy inks as well.

Below, he says there have -not- been heavy metals in the colored
sections of newspapers (or North American paper in general) for
many years, contradicting what you wrote above. He's not around
to ask for a citation, but you are. ;-)

Could you tell me how you know there are currently heavy metals in
colored sections of newspapers?


Regards,

Max



Subject: Re: Composting with Newsprint?
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:25:47 -0500

Post by Stephen M. Henning
Don't use pages that have colored pictures or spot color on them
however, since the inks used in some 4-color processes contain
heavy metals.

Hi Natalie and Jason,

Ever since lead printing plates were banned in north Americal over
twenty years ago, the amount of heavy metals in newsprint, magazines,
and colored inserts are at background levels and are not a concern in
compost or the garden based on EPA regulations. No organic gardening or
farming association anywhere prohibits the use of colored paper in
compost.

Years ago, and in other parts of the world where lead printing plates
are still used, the lead levels are high and a serious problem, but not
in north America. Cadmium is used in yellow inks in concentrations of
concern in dyes used for plastics, but not in printing on paper.

Please do not pass on this myth since there is no evidence to back up
this assertion that colored paper contains heavy metals at levels to be
a problem in the garden. I have seen dozens of heavy metal tests on
paper products, including magazines and colored inserts and all of the
tests are the same as ordinary compost.

Regarding using soy based inks rather than oil based inks is another
common bit of folklore. First, the concentration of hydrocarbons is
nearly undetectable in oil based inks and composting is the recommended
TREATMENT for many hydrocarbons including oil, gasoline, hydralulic
fluid, and diesel in concentrations thousands of times higher than found
in paper.

The move toward soy inks is to reduce the use of fossil fuel based ink
with a renewable ink, and is a good environmental step. But it has
nothing to do with any real biohazard in the paper from the
hydrocarbons.

The bottom line is that all north american paper products are safe to
use in composting, as a mulch and in the garden and there is absolutely
no evidence I am aware of to the contrary.

Jim the Compost Man

[Mary McHugh]

Post by Max

Post by Stephen M. Henning
Be careful about what you read. Composting will never remove heavy
metals which are present in the color sections of newspapers and most

--SNIP--
While back, there was a gent who posted calling himself "Jim the
Compost Man." Really knew his stuff, I learned a lot from him.
Wish he was still around! Anyway, he addressed this issue. I
have it saved off and thought I'd re-post it. He addressed
colored paper and soy inks as well.

That was Jim McNelly. Funny, as I was reading this thread I was thinking
about him and would have posted but you beat me to it. His sig used to be
"nature mulches, man composts". Anyhow, I googled him in the groups and you
can find him at www.composter.com.

Scroll to the bottom and click on the Joy of Composting.

Mary

[Stephen M. Henning]

Post by Max

Post by Stephen M. Henning
Be careful about what you read. Composting will never remove heavy
metals which are present in the color sections of newspapers and most

Could you tell me how you know there are currently heavy metals in
colored sections of newspapers?

I don't know which papers they are in. I do know that the color inks
with heavy metal pigments are still being made and sold. Nontoxic color
inks are also being made and sold, but they have serious problems with
fading. I don't know the relative quantities at this point in time.
Unless you contact the printer of your local newspaper, you can't be
sure which ink you are getting. Most use some of each.

[Max]

Post by Stephen M. Henning

Post by Max

Post by Stephen M. Henning
Be careful about what you read. Composting will never remove heavy
metals which are present in the color sections of newspapers and most

Could you tell me how you know there are currently heavy metals in
colored sections of newspapers?

I don't know which papers they are in. I do know that the color inks
with heavy metal pigments are still being made and sold. Nontoxic color
inks are also being made and sold, but they have serious problems with
fading. I don't know the relative quantities at this point in time.
Unless you contact the printer of your local newspaper, you can't be
sure which ink you are getting. Most use some of each.

Alright Stephen, enough prevaricating.

In this post, http://tinyurl.com/2ek9b, a guy who works in the
composting biz professionally, with cities and counties, says
you're wrong.

I said, "Stephen, hey this guy seems to know his stuff and he
says different, colored paper is OK to compost. How do you know
it isn't?" Your reply above seems only to say, "because I know."

One more time, HOW do you know?

[Anonymous]

Post by Stephen M. Henning
Be careful about what you read. Composting will never remove heavy
metals which are present in the color sections of newspapers and most
organic waste from the top of the food chain. They are toxic and are
never removed by composting. Composting never removes elemental toxins,
it can just convert molecular toxins. Also, don't be mislead about the
high temperatures of composting. Even incinerators don't break down all
toxic waste into harmless substances. That is why so many people are
objecting to having waste incinerators in their neighborhoods.

I AM careful about what I read. And that's why I'd like you to define what
you mean by "organic waste from the top of the food chain". If you are
referencing human waste (as it seems you might be), then I think you are
fully mistaken.

Even if there are heavy metals in the ink (a point still open to
contention), there is darned little ink on a page and only a TINY fraction
of that would be the actual offending metal. Moreover, composting does
bind up elemental toxins into safer compounds ... they, after all, are the
building block of 'molecular' toxins.

I have a great deal of confidence in the effectiveness of the microbiology
of a compost pile. While I would not lace it with strychnine and then dine
on it directly, that's because I don't deliberately eat compost directly
under any circumstances. I would be completely willing to dose a fresh
pile, compost it as per my usual custom and then use it in my garden after
a 2 year aging period.

Bill

[Salty Thumb]

Post by Anonymous
Even if there are heavy metals in the ink (a point still open to
contention), there is darned little ink on a page and only a TINY
fraction of that would be the actual offending metal. Moreover,
composting does bind up elemental toxins into safer compounds ...
they, after all, are the building block of 'molecular' toxins.

Every little bit adds up.

I'm curious as to what "safer" molecules are created from lead (or any
other "heavy" metals) by composting.

Post by Anonymous
I have a great deal of confidence in the effectiveness of the
microbiology of a compost pile. While I would not lace it with
strychnine and then dine on it directly, that's because I don't
deliberately eat compost directly under any circumstances. I would be
completely willing to dose a fresh pile, compost it as per my usual
custom and then use it in my garden after a 2 year aging period.

What a great philosopher's stone that would be ... garbage in, gold out.
Unfortunately I still have questions about the transmutablity of many of
the reactants.

Might be marginally off-topic, but I saw this in another group:
[Article] French peat bog reveals thousands of years of mining pollution.
http://groups.google.com/groups?as_umsgid=%3CFXWOb.19025$***@news-
server.bigpond.net.au%3E

"Once lead is locked up in organic material such as peat, it tends to
stay put rather than being washed away by water. "

[Tallgrass]

Anonymous <***@notarealserver.com> wrote in message news:<***@notarealserver.com>...

<<My city does not ... but even if they did, I would not be donating my
scrap paper to them. I would still compost it, as I do now. My reading on
composting tells me to rely on a hot compost pile and a long aging cycle
(at least 1 year) to detoxify darn near anything that might get dumped
into the pile. Even diesel fuel, PCB's and DDT vanish (IIRC, PCB's need 2
years aging). >>

Bill

So....your compost heap/unit is self contained, sealed off from the groundwater?

Linda H., composter of paper

[Pen]

Post by Anonymous
My reading on
composting tells me to rely on a hot compost pile and a long aging cycle
(at least 1 year) to detoxify darn near anything that might get dumped
into the pile.

It only takes about 1 month to compost a few inches of paper in a worm
composter. I've figured that if the worms are alive and healthy then
the compost can't be too bad.

[Cricket Rakita]

wonderful i'll print this and compost it

Post by Pen

Post by Anonymous
My reading on
composting tells me to rely on a hot compost pile and a long aging cycle
(at least 1 year) to detoxify darn near anything that might get dumped
into the pile.

It only takes about 1 month to compost a few inches of paper in a worm
composter. I've figured that if the worms are alive and healthy then
the compost can't be too bad.

[Anonymous]

Post by Tallgrass
So....your compost heap/unit is self contained, sealed off from the groundwater?
Linda H., composter of paper

I am relying on research conducted by others (read
http://www.humanmanure.org for details). I don't make a practice of using
my compost pile to get rid of excess PCB's but I feel I can rely upon it
to dispatch all the contaminants it is likely to see in normal use.

It's not a fetish, it's a garden on the edge of a major city.

Bill

[Kevin Cutlip]

The office paper where I work is great for compost...Almost as much %^#@ as
Black Kow Manure....1.0-1.0-1.0.

Post by Anonymous

Post by Tallgrass
So....your compost heap/unit is self contained, sealed off from the groundwater?
Linda H., composter of paper

I am relying on research conducted by others (read
http://www.humanmanure.org for details). I don't make a practice of using
my compost pile to get rid of excess PCB's but I feel I can rely upon it
to dispatch all the contaminants it is likely to see in normal use.
It's not a fetish, it's a garden on the edge of a major city.
Bill

[Chris Owens]

Post by Phaedrine Stonebridge

Post by Chris Owens

I have read that it is a badX-Mozilla-Status: 0009 with certain
types of ink (e.g. newspapers that use non-soy inks.)
Does anybody know if office documents from an inkjet printer
(black only) should be also be avoided?

Unless your inkjet is using special metallic inks -- you'd know,
they glitter and are even more hellishly expensive than regular
inkjet cartridges -- the ink in the cartridges is soy-based.

Well that is great to know. How about laser printer rejects? Is that
ink also safe?

Same soy base . . . soy makes wonderful biodegrageable plastics,
did you know?

Chris Owens




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